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#1 |
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I just ran into some unusual examples, if anyone has some other images I would like to see them.
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#2 |
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Images of my two Tiger Claw Daggers.
Best regards to all. Brian |
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#3 |
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Hello,
I think the top piece with the half-gauntlet is more of a parrying weapon like the saintie than a bagh nakh. Emanuel |
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#4 | |
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Here are images of a saintie (lt) and a sainti (rt), both rather rare parrying weapons. Then you have the haladie (bottom). |
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#5 | |
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#6 |
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The example I question is a basically a small shield with blades on it. The bagh nakh is a small "glove" with claws hidden in the hand. One is a parrying weapon, the other is a small concealed weapon.
Santie/saintie may not be the name for it, but it is a parrying weapon. I won't repost them here but I think you added some awesome parrying weapons on your Pinterest. They do seem to vary a lot, some more like the madu or the haladie, others more like jamadhar. Last edited by Emanuel; 10th November 2015 at 03:51 AM. |
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#7 | |
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Last edited by estcrh; 10th November 2015 at 04:35 PM. |
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#8 |
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I disagree with you Eric but I'll leave it at that.
It remains that these are fascinating weapons ![]() |
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#9 |
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Gentlemen,
I know little of these weapons, but as a bagh nakh is a concealed weapon, I do not think we can call the weapon in question by this name, and as it would appear to be a secondary weapon, with say a longer blade in the other hand, I would say its use was for parrying. I do hope other examples of this type can be found, as I have never seen one in Egerton or Elgood or anywhere else. There surely had to be a name for this, as it does appear to have some age to it. Best regards Richard. |
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#10 |
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Emanuel and Richard are right, the first one shown has nothing to do with a bagh nakh, it is for parrying maybe to spike the opponents shield.
The bagh nakh is 'tiger claws' hidden in the hand, so the later ones shown, with a dagger at each end, is more than doubtful to be a bagh nakh, as it can hardly be hidden the way it should be. |
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#11 |
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There seems to be some difference in how people define a "parrying weapon", to me it needs to have a long blade or bar to parry a sword such as the example below.
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#12 | |
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A few references that do not mention "concealed" or "hidden". On the left from "Chambers's Journal", W. & R. Chambers, 1892. On the right from "Life in Bombay, and the neighbouring out-stations" Richard Bentley, 1852. On the bottom from George Stone. |
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#13 |
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HERE ARE A FEW MORE I HAVE PICTURES OF NONE OF THEM ARE MINE.
#1. bagh nakh circa 1800 #2 " " 20 th. century, 12 cm. #3. & #4. " " circa 1900, 10.2 cm. #5. " " #6. " " ready for use. #7. & #8 bagh nakh two that belonged to Lew. # 9. a picture of a weapon similar to the one you show i had it listed as a 5 bladed armored hand and forearm with a katar type grip. # 10, #11. & #12. a odd India weapon with multiple blades and a katar grip and hand guard. |
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#14 | ||
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#15 |
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Concealed or not is ultimately irrelevant Eric.
The bagh nakh is held in the hand and basically mimics a tiger's paw and claws. The weird thing we're arguing about is likely held like a buckler but maybe also like a gauntlet, used to block, catch enemy's sword, parry, stab, similar to European parrying daggers and sword catchers. The jamadhars with side blades are a similar concept, as are some of the madu. Something to block/parry with, that also has an offensive element to stab or cut with when the opportunity arises. If anything, this reminds me of Santal shields or even European Renaissance lantern shields. |
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#17 |
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Beautiful example Eric!
We're getting farther from the bagh nakh discussion but I wonder if this multi-bladed thing wasn't part of some ceremonial accoutrements like the garb of the High Executioner at the Delhi Durbar (attached pic). His arm guards look similar. These things look very well built and to be made entirely from crucible steel must say something about their importance. |
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Last edited by estcrh; 11th November 2015 at 08:02 PM. |
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Here is a fairly unusual one, the pic is a webfind, I forgot where from. I suppose it could possibly have a more domestic use but I think it is a weapon. I think bagh nakh are best used not to make a killing blow but to secure and hold a victim while your partner in crime finishes him.
Last edited by machinist; 13th November 2015 at 03:23 PM. |
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#20 |
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I wonder how the first weapon will be used.
One of my books says, that the intention of the bagh nakh is to simulate a tiger attack, to hide an assassination. Roland |
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#21 | ||
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This is the only one I have seen with a single claw, the image is from a 2012 auction, here is the description. They are ofen described as having four to five claws but Brian posted an image of one with two large claws and a third smaller one, his also has a small side blade. http://auctionsimperial.hibid.com/lo...ian-bagh-nakh/ Quote:
Last edited by estcrh; 13th November 2015 at 05:31 PM. |
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#22 | ||
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I have also read that the bagh nakh was used in a type of one on one ritual combat. "The Art of Attack: Being a Study in the Development of Weapons and Appliances of Offence, from the Earliest Times to the Age of Gunpowder", by Henry Swainson Cowper W. Holmes, Limited, Printers, 1906. Quote:
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#23 |
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I am jumping in when all the relevant things were already said. Thus, just my personal opinion.
This cannot be a Bagh Nakh, because it is not hidden. Some strange mix of a parrying shield, bazu band and multi blade katar. India is full of bizarre combination weapons. Perhaps, this one was not very handy and the pattern withered away; hence the rarity. Might have been devilishly hard to invent a name for such a mutt. Maltipoo or goldendoodle must have been child plays in comparison:-) It has its charm, however. |
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#24 | |
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Manner of using the wagnuk, from: "Life in Bombay, and the neighbouring out-stations", Richard Bentley, 1852. Last edited by estcrh; 15th November 2015 at 11:53 PM. |
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#25 |
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Dear Estcrh,
I see no reason for you insisting that the weapon in the opening post of this thread is a bagh nakh, as it bears no resemblance to the small hidden devices by that name. Neither can such a weapon be used as is a bagh nakh. Totally different. Best wishes, Richard. |
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#26 | |
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![]() I would love to see an illustration of exactly how this is deployed as a weapon. |
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#27 | |
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I am not insisting that the weapon you are referring to is a bagh nakh, to me it looks like an Indian weapons maker invented a souped up bagh nakh, replacing the claws with blades, the rings with a bar and adding a shield, thats how I see it, one mans evolved, improved version of the bagh nakh. The one Artzi sold was 14 inches long, which means that there would 7 inches on each side of the handle, this is not long enough to be an effective parrying weapon but some people insist that it is a parrying weapon, that is how they see it. That is the purpose of forum discussions, people post their theories, references, research etc, which helps put a lot of information on a particular subject in one place, sometimes nothing is solved other times the results are quite good. |
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#28 |
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Thank you for your reply Eric.
To me this weapon appears made for parrying, but with a sting attached! Bucklers can be Very small, some the size of a tea -plate, and yet are (Were) used for parrying. Whatever is was called, it cannot have been common. I Theorize (!) that it could have been made to keep a Prince or wealthy man happy. A man who owned all other weaponry already! Must state again though, I see No connection to the tiger claw weapon, other than the fact it has more than one cutting edge............Actually!...(and here I wander off into fantasy).... I suppose under this category also fits my old sickle mower! Best wishes, Richard. |
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#29 | |
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We are in agreement. That's exactly what I said about it: not very handy, hence very rare. Even in India known for her abundance of bizarre forms, weapons that were mechanically unsound did not survive for long. Bank with an over-curved blade is an example. Indians had a lot of imagination, but they were not dummies and a common sense always prevailed. |
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#30 | |
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