Help To ID A Possible Philippine Club

Robert · 1st March 2011, 10:20 PM

Well knowing absolutely nothing about clubs I have purchased this item. It is purported to be of Philippine origin having been given to a serviceman in Luzon at the end of WWII. Here is a link to the item.http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...K%3AMEWNX%3AIT I have posted the auction photos below for future reference or as a warning to others in case I have made a really bad error in judgment having done this on more than one occasion already.

All help on identifying this item will be greatly appreciated.

Robert

Spunjer · 1st March 2011, 10:28 PM

That looks like a knobkerrie, robert.

Robert · 1st March 2011, 10:36 PM

Spunjer,That's what I thought at first too but having looked at every knobkerrie picture that I could find I could not find one carved like this on the ball end. If it is a knobkerrie then I now have a new addition to my very limited African collection.

Robert

Spunjer · 1st March 2011, 10:45 PM

I can't associate any tribes in luzon, or any part of the philippines for that matter, that utilizes clubs as a weapon. Maybe nonoy tan or migueldiaz can reinterate on this...

VANDOO · 1st March 2011, 11:01 PM

I HAVE TRIED TO FIND INFORMATION ON WAR CLUBS FROM THE PHILIPPINES BEFORE WITH VERY LITTLE SUCESS. CLUBS WERE SURELY USED AT SOME POINT IN THE ISLANDS HISTORY BUT INFORMATION AND EXAMPLES FOR REFRENCE HAVE ELUDED ME SO FAR.
CLUBS WOULD STILL BE USEFUL EVEN TODAY AS THEY ARE INEXPENSIVE TO MAKE AND THE MATERIALS EASY TO COME BY SO ITS EASY TO SUSPECT THEY COULD HAVE BEEN USED EVEN UP TO THE PRESENT IN SOME AREAS.
AT ANY RATE THE CLUB SHOWS GOOD PATINA, WEAR AND AGE SO WOULD BE A GOOD BUY EVEN IF ITS ZULU OR SOMETHING IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT.

I HAVEN'T SEEN A AFRICAN CLUB WITH ALL THESE FEATURES SO PERHAPS OUR AFRICAN COLLECTORS CAN HELP GET AN ID ON IT. GOOD LUCK

Robert · 2nd March 2011, 01:07 AM

I have tried to doctor the pictures up a little so maybe someone could possibly identify the type of wood that this is made from in hope that it could help in its overall identification.

Robert

Lew · 2nd March 2011, 03:08 AM

Rob

It's an old knobkerrie my friend probably Tanzanian or Kenyan?

migueldiaz · 2nd March 2011, 07:22 AM

Hello, all. At the West Point (USMA) museum, there's two similar clubs to the right and left of the Kalinga axe (pic attached).

I don't recall though the captions of those two clubs saying they are from the Philippines. Maybe somebody has a clearer shot or will recall what's written in there - then that would settle the matter.

Looking also at the war clubs from the Bandholtz collection at the Phil. National Museum, we don't see a similar looking piece.

Perhaps the nearest resemblance of said club is the Philippine rattan club found at the Victor Balaguer museum near Barcelona, Spain. The photo is below.

Lew · 2nd March 2011, 11:35 AM

The clubs next to the axe could be native American since there are other stone headed axes next to it?

migueldiaz · 2nd March 2011, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lew

The clubs next to the axe could be native American since there are other stone headed axes next to it?

Thanks, Lew. Indeed, it turns out. Per attached pic, the one to the left of the Kalinga axe says "Dakota" while the one to the right says "American Indian Club".

Incidentally, the axe's caption says "Luguagan, Northern Luzon". It is actually Lubuagan, which is part of the Kalinga province.

Robert · 2nd March 2011, 09:42 PM

Well folks, you pay your money and you take your chances. This is what happens when you don't really know what it is you're looking at and end up buying the story and not the item.

My main concern now is if this is in fact actually an African knobkerrie did I pay too much for what it is.

Robert

Robert · 4th March 2011, 08:53 PM

The club arrived to day and it has a very nice overall patina and shows good age and wear. The shaft looks to be formed by scraping while the ball end seems to be chip carved, small scoop style cuts. The wood is quite hard and extremely heavy but dry. Can anyone tell me what the best course of action would be in its preservation. Should it be cleaned and if so with what and should any oils or preservatives be put on it? It is raining here as usual so I will have to post any new pictures later. Any help that could be offered on the preservation of this club or on its actual age would be greatly appreciated.

Robert

Lew · 4th March 2011, 09:28 PM

Rob

Clean it off with a soft brush and apply a bit of Ren wax.

Robert · 4th March 2011, 09:31 PM

Thank you Lew. Would you care to make a comment on its possible age? One more thing that I thought I'd mention is the fact that the wood is a lot darker than it looks in most of the pictures. The last picture (of the first ones posted) that shows the end of the shaft is the closest to the actual color of the wood.

Robert

Robert · 5th March 2011, 12:49 AM

New Pictures.

Lew · 5th March 2011, 04:42 PM

As far as age goes I would think 1920-30s maybe a bit older.

Robert · 6th March 2011, 06:59 AM

Hello Lew and thank you for all your help in identifying the origin and age of this club. Now I have to decide if I'm going to add it to the few African items I have and end up starting a new collection or passing it along to someone else and adding something new to my Philippine collection. Decisions, decisions, decisions.

1st March 2011, 10:20 PM	#1
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Help To ID A Possible Philippine Club Well knowing absolutely nothing about clubs I have purchased this item. It is purported to be of Philippine origin having been given to a serviceman in Luzon at the end of WWII. Here is a link to the item.http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...K%3AMEWNX%3AIT I have posted the auction photos below for future reference or as a warning to others in case I have made a really bad error in judgment having done this on more than one occasion already. All help on identifying this item will be greatly appreciated. Robert Attached Images

2nd March 2011, 01:07 AM	#6
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	I have tried to doctor the pictures up a little so maybe someone could possibly identify the type of wood that this is made from in hope that it could help in its overall identification. Robert Attached Images

2nd March 2011, 07:22 AM	#8
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	Hello, all. At the West Point (USMA) museum, there's two similar clubs to the right and left of the Kalinga axe (pic attached). I don't recall though the captions of those two clubs saying they are from the Philippines. Maybe somebody has a clearer shot or will recall what's written in there - then that would settle the matter. Looking also at the war clubs from the Bandholtz collection at the Phil. National Museum, we don't see a similar looking piece. Perhaps the nearest resemblance of said club is the Philippine rattan club found at the Victor Balaguer museum near Barcelona, Spain. The photo is below. Attached Images

2nd March 2011, 09:42 PM	#11
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Well folks, you pay your money and you take your chances. This is what happens when you don't really know what it is you're looking at and end up buying the story and not the item. My main concern now is if this is in fact actually an African knobkerrie did I pay too much for what it is. Robert Last edited by Robert Coleman; 2nd March 2011 at 10:57 PM.

4th March 2011, 08:53 PM	#12
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	The club arrived to day and it has a very nice overall patina and shows good age and wear. The shaft looks to be formed by scraping while the ball end seems to be chip carved, small scoop style cuts. The wood is quite hard and extremely heavy but dry. Can anyone tell me what the best course of action would be in its preservation. Should it be cleaned and if so with what and should any oils or preservatives be put on it? It is raining here as usual so I will have to post any new pictures later. Any help that could be offered on the preservation of this club or on its actual age would be greatly appreciated. Robert Last edited by Robert Coleman; 4th March 2011 at 09:24 PM.

1st March 2011, 10:28 PM	#2
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	That looks like a knobkerrie, robert.

1st March 2011, 10:36 PM	#3
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Spunjer,That's what I thought at first too but having looked at every knobkerrie picture that I could find I could not find one carved like this on the ball end. If it is a knobkerrie then I now have a new addition to my very limited African collection. Robert

1st March 2011, 10:45 PM	#4
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	I can't associate any tribes in luzon, or any part of the philippines for that matter, that utilizes clubs as a weapon. Maybe nonoy tan or migueldiaz can reinterate on this...

1st March 2011, 11:01 PM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I HAVE TRIED TO FIND INFORMATION ON WAR CLUBS FROM THE PHILIPPINES BEFORE WITH VERY LITTLE SUCESS. CLUBS WERE SURELY USED AT SOME POINT IN THE ISLANDS HISTORY BUT INFORMATION AND EXAMPLES FOR REFRENCE HAVE ELUDED ME SO FAR. CLUBS WOULD STILL BE USEFUL EVEN TODAY AS THEY ARE INEXPENSIVE TO MAKE AND THE MATERIALS EASY TO COME BY SO ITS EASY TO SUSPECT THEY COULD HAVE BEEN USED EVEN UP TO THE PRESENT IN SOME AREAS. AT ANY RATE THE CLUB SHOWS GOOD PATINA, WEAR AND AGE SO WOULD BE A GOOD BUY EVEN IF ITS ZULU OR SOMETHING IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT. I HAVEN'T SEEN A AFRICAN CLUB WITH ALL THESE FEATURES SO PERHAPS OUR AFRICAN COLLECTORS CAN HELP GET AN ID ON IT. GOOD LUCK

2nd March 2011, 03:08 AM	#7
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Rob It's an old knobkerrie my friend probably Tanzanian or Kenyan?

2nd March 2011, 11:35 AM	#9
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	The clubs next to the axe could be native American since there are other stone headed axes next to it?

4th March 2011, 09:28 PM	#13
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Rob Clean it off with a soft brush and apply a bit of Ren wax.

4th March 2011, 09:31 PM	#14
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Thank you Lew. Would you care to make a comment on its possible age? One more thing that I thought I'd mention is the fact that the wood is a lot darker than it looks in most of the pictures. The last picture (of the first ones posted) that shows the end of the shaft is the closest to the actual color of the wood. Robert Last edited by Robert Coleman; 5th March 2011 at 12:21 AM.

5th March 2011, 12:49 AM	#15
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	New Pictures. Attached Images

5th March 2011, 04:42 PM	#16
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	As far as age goes I would think 1920-30s maybe a bit older.

6th March 2011, 06:59 AM	#17
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Lew and thank you for all your help in identifying the origin and age of this club. Now I have to decide if I'm going to add it to the few African items I have and end up starting a new collection or passing it along to someone else and adding something new to my Philippine collection. Decisions, decisions, decisions.