Khanjar for comments

[A.alnakkas]

Hi all,

I got this khanjar this week. Pretty cool piece, well made and all with a decent blade.

I am though alittle confused regarding hilt material. Thought at first its plastic or bakelite but gave it a hot needle test and it smelt like hair.

[A.alnakkas]

Wrong place. Can you move it please? xD

[fernando]

Just as you asked

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by fernando

Just as you asked

Thank you, my hero <3

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Hi all,

I got this khanjar this week. Pretty cool piece, well made and all with a decent blade.

I am though alittle confused regarding hilt material. Thought at first its plastic or bakelite but gave it a hot needle test and it smelt like hair.

Salaams A.alnakkas ~ Yours is a good example of the Jizzan Saudia weapon....actually Im not at all sure what that is called... Khanjar or Janbiyya ? The material of the hilt is also interesting and I wonder if it is Giraffe ? as opposed to Zraff (wahid al garn) Rhino. Could it be amber?
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Dom]

Hi Lotfi
as far as I know, for me it's Saudi, and a beautiful one
mabrouk Bro.

all the best

à +

Dom

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams A.alnakkas ~ Yours is a good example of the Jizzan Saudia weapon....actually Im not at all sure what that is called... Khanjar or Janbiyya ? The material of the hilt is also interesting and I wonder if it is Giraffe ? as opposed to Zraff (wahid al garn) Rhino. Could it be amber?
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Salam,

I dont think Giraffe horn was ever used for hilting.

Amber is a possiblity, does it burn and smells like hair though?

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Dom

Hi Lotfi
as far as I know, for me it's Saudi, and a beautiful one
mabrouk Bro.

all the best

à +

Dom

Shukran Allah ybarek feek ya Amo elhajj :P

Any idea whats the material?

[spiral]

The hilt appears a reconstituted material, whatever its origins... Not the fantasy of Giraffe though...

Ive found Plastic is common in the so called "Amber" hillted pieces sold by all the top dealers we know & love... :

Spiral

[Atlantia]

Hi Lotfy,

Like Spiral, I was also thinking along the lines of some kind of processed/resin/composite type material.


These faux-rhino 'amber' substitute hilt materials have to be a step in the right direction.
Anything is preferable to the loss of Rhinos.

I've often thought that with the explosion of cheap stone carving in China in recent years, semi precious stone hilts would be a fantastic and cost effective modern option.

Imagine a Khanjar with a jadeite or Nephrite hilt!

[T. Koch]

Hi Ibrahamim,

What a fine jambiya! I really like the hilt shape and the silver work on the hilt is just lovely!

Regarding the hilt material, I also wouldn't think it animal in origin. The "horns" of Giraffes aren't really horns in the usual definition, but rather bone structures protruding from the top of the cranium, which is covered in living skin. I enclose a picture for illustration.


All the best and thanks for sharing, - Thor

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by spiral

The hilt appears a reconstituted material, whatever its origins... Not the fantasy of Giraffe though...

Ive found Plastic is common in the so called "Amber" hillted pieces sold by all the top dealers we know & love... :

Spiral

Salaams Spiral ~ It is an interesting point... "The Fantasy of Giraffe" .. For those not in on the subject Zraff is the common term both in Oman and Yemen for Rhino. (Though in Yemen there are also several other names depending on the grade/age of the horn) I recall searching on and off for many years for the Giraffe alternative and imagined hoof as well as horn from the Giraffes head as being used for some hilts. To date I have never seen a Giraffe horn hilt and like you I suspect it was all a play on words.

On the subject of the Jizzan Saudia weapon (though in fact when this weapon was born sometime after about 1840 derived from the Omani Royal Khanjar style invented by Sheherazad wife of the Saaid Sultan it was Yemen but annexed in the early 20thC by Saudia)

Thinking aloud ~I suspected amber(ar. anbar) or composite... ~ It has the colour of Yemeni amber. When it burns (hot pin test) I imagine it is quite pungent. The only other thing I know about amber is that it floats...not a practical test on hilts clad in silver etc.

T Koch ~ ah well there is the giraffes head... I never saw a giraffe skull before.. The weapon belongs to Al Nakas as does the thread... Yes it's a nice example.

So what is it ?
I am going to make a bold opinion having been over the pictures with a magnifier and say this is in fact Rhino. Check the entire left half of the main expanded picture and you will see the spagghetti form of Rhino Horn ('Wahid al Garn' or Z'raff) ... Its Rhino which is common in Al JAZZAN HILTS and burns with the smell of hair.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[T. Koch]

Ibrahim and Lotfy, I'm sorry for mixing you guys up, please forgive me.

Ibrahim, I'm very intrigued and have much respect for your knowledge in the area. Would you consider making a topic on the different classifications and names of rhino horn in the Omani jambiya trade, when you have the time some day?


Best regards and sorry again for the confusion, - Thor

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by T. Koch

Ibrahim and Lotfy, I'm sorry for mixing you guys up, please forgive me.

Ibrahim, I'm very intrigued and have much respect for your knowledge in the area. Would you consider making a topic on the different classifications and names of rhino horn in the Omani jambiya trade, when you have the time some day?


Best regards and sorry again for the confusion, - Thor

Salaams T. Koch ~ Its very simple... Oman doesn't have different names for Rhino Horn ... It calls it Z'raff... and occasionally Wahid al Garn (The one with the horn) however in Yemen they classify several different grades/ ages/ types. Theres a good description in Forum Library. Omanis dont call Omani daggers Jambiyya(Janbiyya) but use the Omani term Khanjar(Khunjar) which more than likely comes from a Persian root.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[archer]

Other tests for Amber:
Vigorously rub your amber on some wool for about 20 seconds to create static.
Take a strand of hair and place the static-charged amber close to it. Real genuine amber should quickly attract the hair towards it, with the hair gently sticking to the gemstone. If no static is produced after rubbing on wool (ie it doesn't attract the hair) then you might have a piece of fake amber.
Genuine amber is lightweight and warm to touch, not cold and heavy like glass.
Loose amber beads can be tested in salt water. Add 25g of salt to 200ml water in a glass and drop your amber into it. Genuine amber should float, not quickly sink to the bottom.
Genuine amber reacts to ultraviolet light. Take your amber into a darkened room and shine a cheap UV torch on it. If it gently glows, it's real.

Try These, Steve

[Dom]

Originally Posted by spiral

The hilt appears a reconstituted material, whatever its origins... Not the fantasy of Giraffe though...

Ive found Plastic is common in the so called "Amber" hillted pieces sold by all the top dealers we know & love... :

Spiral

Hi Lotfi
our friend "spiral" is on the good track:
- hilt appears a reconstituted material
- I've found Plastic is common in the so called "Amber"

I gave on past the indication about "Karaman" (false amber) kind of Bakelite (Ottoman)
- karaman
- faturan
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...ghlight=karaman

à +

Dom

[A.alnakkas]

Well, I gave it another hot needle test and the scent was very faint it almost smells like hair but it isnt. It smelt like burnt plastic but not as strong..

Will try Spiral's trick with the wool :-))

Ibrahim, Amber is Kahraman in Yemen and most Arabian places. Anber is musk ;-)

[kahnjar1]

FROM IBRAHIIM POST ABOVE;
Thinking aloud ~I suspected amber(ar. anbar) or composite... ~ It has the colour of Yemeni amber. When it burns (hot pin test) I imagine it is quite pungent. The only other thing I know about amber is that it floats...not a practical test on hilts clad in silver etc.


Ibrahiim...I think you are getting mixed up between Amber and Ambergris. Amber is a tree resin (not sap), and is often found in geologic seams, and Ambergris is from Sperm Whales and does float. Is often found on remote beachs within proximity of whale habitat.

[spiral]

As stated by others, amber does float in salt water...

Its also far to brittle for hilts.


Spiral

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Well, I gave it another hot needle test and the scent was very faint it almost smells like hair but it isnt. It smelt like burnt plastic but not as strong..

Will try Spiral's trick with the wool :-))

Ibrahim, Amber is Kahraman in Yemen and most Arabian places. Anber is musk ;-)

Salaams A.alnakkas ~ Quite right "Kahraman" it is known as in the Yemen and Oman ( I looked it up in an obscure scientific journal and they have it as anbar which I assumed was the original word from which amber came. I will look again; see #21 below)... Fossilized tree rezin where the molecules have been rejigged the other way round and superb for making rings necklaces often found with leaf and insect deposited in the mix. But I dont think its amber.

If you look at your hilt under a magnifier you too will discover the tell tale almost 8 sided geometry of the spaghetti ended Rhino... in the left side of your picture it is both muddy and translucent but clearer under the scope in patches.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

FROM IBRAHIIM POST ABOVE;
Thinking aloud ~I suspected amber(ar. anbar) or composite... ~ It has the colour of Yemeni amber. When it burns (hot pin test) I imagine it is quite pungent. The only other thing I know about amber is that it floats...not a practical test on hilts clad in silver etc.


Ibrahiim...I think you are getting mixed up between Amber and Ambergris. Amber is a tree resin (not sap), and is often found in geologic seams, and Ambergris is from Sperm Whales and does float. Is often found on remote beachs within proximity of whale habitat.

Salaams Khanjar 1 ~ Not quite. Here are extracts from wiki encyclopaedia description~

History and etymology
The English word amber derives from the Arabic anbar, via Medieval Latin ambar and Old French ambre. The word originally referred to a solid waxy substance derived from the sperm whale (now called ambergris). The sense was extended to fossil resin circa 1400, and this became the main sense, as the use of ambergris waned. The two substances were confused, because they both were found washed up on beaches. Ambergris is less dense than water and floats, whereas amber is less dense than stone, but too dense to float.The word ambar was brought to Europe by the Crusaders. In French ambre gris (lit. gray amber), became used for ambergris, while ambre jaune (yellow amber), denoted the fossil resin we now call amber.

Amber occurs in a range of different colors. As well as the usual yellow-orange-brown that is associated with the color "amber", amber itself can range from a whitish color through a pale lemon yellow, to brown and almost black. Other uncommon colors include red amber (sometimes known as "cherry amber"), green amber, and even blue amber, which is rare and highly sought after.

Yellow amber is a hard, translucent, yellow, orange, or brown fossil resin from evergreen trees. Known to the Iranians by the Pahlavi compound word kah-ruba (from kah “straw” plus rubay “attract, snatch,” referring to its electrical properties), which entered Arabic as kahraba' or kahraba, ( note by Ibrahiim~kahraba gave to the Arabic system a word meaning electricity !! ) it too was called amber in Europe (Old French and Middle English ambre). Found along the southern shore of the Baltic Sea, yellow amber reached the Middle East and western Europe via trade. Its coastal acquisition may have been one reason yellow amber came to be designated by the same term as ambergris. Moreover, like ambergris, the resin could be burned as an incense.

The resin's most popular use was, however, for ornamentation—easily cut and polished, it could be transformed into beautiful jewelry. Much of the most highly prized amber is transparent, in contrast to the very common cloudy amber and opaque amber. Opaque amber contains numerous minute bubbles. This kind of amber is known as "bony amber".

Pictured below is a piece of light weight black ambergris and some yellow amber. They are both used as perfumes.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.