Pedang from java (?)

thomas hauschild · 6th February 2024, 05:54 PM

Right out of the box this new aquisition.

I think a pedang from Java(?). The scabbard was a little bit „yellowish“ from the sellers pictures so I awaited brass, but after a light cleaning that was only dirt and it is silver. The blade is very complex. It will need some stain to bring out the full beauty. But I‘m realy happy to get it and like to put some work in it.

Detailed information about the age and the origin will be very welcome.Thanks in advance

Best Thomas

A. G. Maisey · 6th February 2024, 07:38 PM

Thomas, has this hilt & scabbard been tested as silver?

In the photos it looks very much like mamas.

I am inclined to date this pedang as Central Jawa, late Colonial era, say around 1870 through to around 1920, but blade could be a little earlier, say first half, 19th century.

Sajen · 6th February 2024, 09:27 PM

Hi Thomas,

Congrats, nice Javanese pedang!

Agree with everything Alan has written, you should test the handle and scabbard material, like Alan I think it's mamas.

Regards,
Detlef

thomas hauschild · 6th February 2024, 09:32 PM

Hi A.G.

The mamas question is a little bit new for me. I searched by google and in this forum without a result ( till now) what alloy-content I have to expect. Will be very interesting to learn something to use for my own knives.

I have some pieces in my collection with some parts of yellowish alloy, bright color like german silver but brighter, but that looks different.

I have some silver in my collection and my feeling was „polishes like silver“ and the cleaning rag with the polish looks black like the same. But proof is better than feeling and to be honest, I wanted to expect silver lol

I will go to a jeweler to proof.

A. G. Maisey · 7th February 2024, 02:03 AM

Buy a little bottle of silver test from a jeweller's supply house, it is cheap, it lasts forever, you only need a tiny drop for testing, & it can prevent costly error.

Other names for mamas are paktong, p'aitun, it is a nickel + copper + zinc alloy, Chinese in origin.

Similar, or maybe even the same as alpaka/albata, nickel silver, argentum, german silver, mailechort.

There has been a real lot of "silver" ornamented weaponry from Indonesia & SE Asia in general that has been sold into the Western World that is in fact ornamented with mamas.

thomas hauschild · 8th February 2024, 08:39 AM

Ok I think now that this is mamas on this piece. (Not a big issue for me, have paid a low price for it)

I have tested some pieces yet with my „grandma‘s cleaning tip for silver“ saltwater and aluminium foil. I put a drop of saltwater on a silver coin and some weapons of my collection, hold a piece of aluminiumfoil for 30 sec in that drop, and after this I saw a clear cleaning effect by the form of the drop when there was definetly silver. On other pieces of white metal as on this pedang, no effect ( due to nickel ? ) . What do you think about this simple test guys ?

Best Thomas

Ian · 8th February 2024, 10:06 AM

White metal on weapons can also include white brass, which is a Copper/Zinc alloy (no Nickel). Yellow brass is a similar alloy and the main difference between the two is that white brass has 66% Zinc and yellow brass 63%. The additional Zinc makes white brass a little more durable and tougher than yellow brass, but white brass may corrode more easily.

Nice blade, Thomas, for an inexpensive purchase.

6th February 2024, 05:54 PM	#1
thomas hauschild Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Germany Posts: 139	Pedang from java (?) Right out of the box this new aquisition. I think a pedang from Java(?). The scabbard was a little bit „yellowish“ from the sellers pictures so I awaited brass, but after a light cleaning that was only dirt and it is silver. The blade is very complex. It will need some stain to bring out the full beauty. But I‘m realy happy to get it and like to put some work in it. Detailed information about the age and the origin will be very welcome.Thanks in advance Best Thomas Attached Images

6th February 2024, 07:38 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Thomas, has this hilt & scabbard been tested as silver? In the photos it looks very much like mamas. I am inclined to date this pedang as Central Jawa, late Colonial era, say around 1870 through to around 1920, but blade could be a little earlier, say first half, 19th century.

6th February 2024, 09:27 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,779	Hi Thomas, Congrats, nice Javanese pedang! Agree with everything Alan has written, you should test the handle and scabbard material, like Alan I think it's mamas. Regards, Detlef

6th February 2024, 09:32 PM	#4
thomas hauschild Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Germany Posts: 139	Hi A.G. The mamas question is a little bit new for me. I searched by google and in this forum without a result ( till now) what alloy-content I have to expect. Will be very interesting to learn something to use for my own knives. I have some pieces in my collection with some parts of yellowish alloy, bright color like german silver but brighter, but that looks different. I have some silver in my collection and my feeling was „polishes like silver“ and the cleaning rag with the polish looks black like the same. But proof is better than feeling and to be honest, I wanted to expect silver lol I will go to a jeweler to proof.

7th February 2024, 02:03 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Buy a little bottle of silver test from a jeweller's supply house, it is cheap, it lasts forever, you only need a tiny drop for testing, & it can prevent costly error. Other names for mamas are paktong, p'aitun, it is a nickel + copper + zinc alloy, Chinese in origin. Similar, or maybe even the same as alpaka/albata, nickel silver, argentum, german silver, mailechort. There has been a real lot of "silver" ornamented weaponry from Indonesia & SE Asia in general that has been sold into the Western World that is in fact ornamented with mamas.

8th February 2024, 08:39 AM	#6
thomas hauschild Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Germany Posts: 139	Ok I think now that this is mamas on this piece. (Not a big issue for me, have paid a low price for it) I have tested some pieces yet with my „grandma‘s cleaning tip for silver“ saltwater and aluminium foil. I put a drop of saltwater on a silver coin and some weapons of my collection, hold a piece of aluminiumfoil for 30 sec in that drop, and after this I saw a clear cleaning effect by the form of the drop when there was definetly silver. On other pieces of white metal as on this pedang, no effect ( due to nickel ? ) . What do you think about this simple test guys ? Best Thomas

8th February 2024, 10:06 AM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,198	White metal on weapons can also include white brass, which is a Copper/Zinc alloy (no Nickel). Yellow brass is a similar alloy and the main difference between the two is that white brass has 66% Zinc and yellow brass 63%. The additional Zinc makes white brass a little more durable and tougher than yellow brass, but white brass may corrode more easily. Nice blade, Thomas, for an inexpensive purchase.