Russian Navy officer sword with the Order of St. Ann

lastwarIP · 11th April 2018, 11:53 AM

Hello, I have Russian sword for navy officers with a miniature of the Order of St. Ann of the 4th class. Russia, model 1914. With a scabbard.

Basic technical data:
Overall length with the scabbard.........................413 mm
Overall length without the scabbard....................390 mm
Length of the blade. ...........................................287 mm
Width of the blade............................................. ...17 mm
Span of the guard (cross bar).................................77 mm
Length of the scabbard.........................................3 05 mm
Please can You help me determine the historical value. Thank You!

salsan · 12th April 2018, 01:46 PM

Dear lastwar IP, unfortunately, this subject does not represent historical value. It's a fake copy.
Alex

fernando · 12th April 2018, 02:52 PM

Welcome to the forum, lastwarIP.

Let's just call it a copy or a replica, Alex. Fake would be a strong word in this case; certainly was not made to pretend to be genuine, to deceive possible buyers.

salsan · 12th April 2018, 03:15 PM

I agree with you Fernando, this dirk is just a copy.

lastwarIP · 12th April 2018, 08:06 PM

Hi friends! Please let me know , why You think that it is only replica? Thank You

ariel · 13th April 2018, 04:11 AM

Well, whether it is a copy, a replica or a fake, it is still “not genuine”.
The distinction lies in the intent of the seller, and we have no way of guessing it.
So, just not to be rude, we may limit ourselves to the mildest possible term.

“Copy” does the job well, IMHO.

fernando · 13th April 2018, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

... Well, whether it is a copy, a replica or a fake, it is still “not genuine”...The distinction lies in the intent of the seller, and we have no way of guessing it.

Neither such context was expressed, so we do well in dropping it

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

... So, just not to be rude, we may limit ourselves to the mildest possible term...

That was the idea

lastwarIP · 17th April 2018, 08:05 PM

Hello, friends! Here are photos and video of the sword in disassembled condition for more detailed study and the expert's opinion from expert of historical weapons - the head of the historical branch of the East Bohemian Pardubice Museum - pan Mgr. Jan Tetřev
The registration of an expert in the Ministry of Justice of the Czech Republic
here is the link http://datalot.justice.cz/justice/rep...
Here is the link for download Experts opinion https://cloud.mail.ru/public/9Ank/ezS...
Here is the link for download fotos of the sword
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SD9Bs65P2HX...
here is the link for video of the sword
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RfSyZFNhSw&t=47s
Regards!

fernando · 17th April 2018, 09:50 PM

Dear lastwarIP, it is excelent for you that your dirk is genuine.
Perhaps this is time to remind you that, despite the scope of this European forum is to contemplate the discussion and study of antique weapons from ancient times to the end of the 19th. century, we welcomed the posting of your 1914 example to eventually help with some basic notes.
However as you now put it, you are well documented in this item and even have an expert's full report on it.
One would therefore be perplex with your posting it here to inquire about its historical value, when you already knew it.
All the best.

Jon MB · 18th April 2018, 07:19 PM

Well, regardless of the piece of paper, to my eyes the etch looks to be lower quality than other similar types of work I have seen on Russian award weapons, in person and in photographs, in the past.

Previous comments did not go into detail. It is interesting to watch the video, more evidence for evaluation.

The people who gave their opinion here may indeed stand by their opinions, despite the opinion of someone who may be an authority on the matter.

lastwarIP · 25th April 2018, 11:03 AM

I agree with you, everyone has the right to express their opinion.
Maybe etching was done to order elsewhere, but I'm not an expert.
Regards!

11th April 2018, 11:53 AM	#1
lastwarIP Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 4	Russian Navy officer sword with the Order of St. Ann Hello, I have Russian sword for navy officers with a miniature of the Order of St. Ann of the 4th class. Russia, model 1914. With a scabbard. Basic technical data: Overall length with the scabbard.........................413 mm Overall length without the scabbard....................390 mm Length of the blade. ...........................................287 mm Width of the blade............................................. ...17 mm Span of the guard (cross bar).................................77 mm Length of the scabbard.........................................3 05 mm Please can You help me determine the historical value. Thank You! Attached Images

12th April 2018, 01:46 PM	#2
salsan Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18	Dear lastwar IP, unfortunately, this subject does not represent historical value. It's a fake copy. Alex

12th April 2018, 02:52 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Welcome to the forum, lastwarIP. Let's just call it a copy or a replica, Alex. Fake would be a strong word in this case; certainly was not made to pretend to be genuine, to deceive possible buyers.

12th April 2018, 03:15 PM	#4
salsan Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18	I agree with you Fernando, this dirk is just a copy.

12th April 2018, 08:06 PM	#5
lastwarIP Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 4	Hi friends! Please let me know , why You think that it is only replica? Thank You

13th April 2018, 04:11 AM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Well, whether it is a copy, a replica or a fake, it is still “not genuine”. The distinction lies in the intent of the seller, and we have no way of guessing it. So, just not to be rude, we may limit ourselves to the mildest possible term. “Copy” does the job well, IMHO.

17th April 2018, 08:05 PM	#8
lastwarIP Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 4	Hello, friends! Here are photos and video of the sword in disassembled condition for more detailed study and the expert's opinion from expert of historical weapons - the head of the historical branch of the East Bohemian Pardubice Museum - pan Mgr. Jan Tetřev The registration of an expert in the Ministry of Justice of the Czech Republic here is the link http://datalot.justice.cz/justice/rep... Here is the link for download Experts opinion https://cloud.mail.ru/public/9Ank/ezS... Here is the link for download fotos of the sword https://photos.app.goo.gl/SD9Bs65P2HX... here is the link for video of the sword https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RfSyZFNhSw&t=47s Regards!

17th April 2018, 09:50 PM	#9
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Dear lastwarIP, it is excelent for you that your dirk is genuine. Perhaps this is time to remind you that, despite the scope of this European forum is to contemplate the discussion and study of antique weapons from ancient times to the end of the 19th. century, we welcomed the posting of your 1914 example to eventually help with some basic notes. However as you now put it, you are well documented in this item and even have an expert's full report on it. One would therefore be perplex with your posting it here to inquire about its historical value, when you already knew it. All the best.

18th April 2018, 07:19 PM	#10
Jon MB Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 143	Well, regardless of the piece of paper, to my eyes the etch looks to be lower quality than other similar types of work I have seen on Russian award weapons, in person and in photographs, in the past. Previous comments did not go into detail. It is interesting to watch the video, more evidence for evaluation. The people who gave their opinion here may indeed stand by their opinions, despite the opinion of someone who may be an authority on the matter.

25th April 2018, 11:03 AM	#11
lastwarIP Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 4	I agree with you, everyone has the right to express their opinion. Maybe etching was done to order elsewhere, but I'm not an expert. Regards!