Tlingit dagger commission

[Harry Marinakis]

Greetings,

Always wanted a Tlingit dagger, so I starting looking around for a Tlingit to make one for me. Couldn't find anyone, so I started looking to non-Tlingit bladesmiths.

Leo Todeschini at Tod's Stuff was willing to give it a try, and after a lot of guidance and discussion, I received this 40 cm in the mail. Hope you like it.


Tod's Facebook photos of the dagger
Tod's Stuff - Tlingit Dagger

[archer]

Hi Harry,
Welcome and Fantastic. Does the Silver pommel slip off to reveal another blade? a few years back I was lucky to acquire a Haida Shaskat. Seeing yours I'm thinking that the difference between the two tribes daggers is the flat vs ribbed opposite side. That difference seems to carry over from the voluted and other Tlingit shapes.

Pleased to see your example, Steve

[David]

Welcome to the forum Harry. I must say that is a really beautiful reproduction of a Tlingit dagger. Leo took up the challenge and did a fine job. I would image that he probably used the blade below as at least a partial template for this work.
I hope you will forgive me though, if i suggest that you still do not actually own a Tlingit dagger. Though a beautiful reproduction for sure it does not carry the cultural intent or purpose of the blade it has been designed after nor has it been crafted by that culture. These were very special ritual blades that had a real function within the society that produced them. The dagger below is named Keet Gwalaa (Killer whale dagger).
I don't say this simply to put a damper on you new baby. Personally i would love to own such an exquisite repro as this. If we were on a blade smith forum or some other knife collector's forum it probably wouldn't require mentioning. But since we are an ethnographic weapon's site i feel it is necessary to state the difference. Enjoy your new dagger. It is a pretty stunning thing.

[Battara]

I agree with David on all that he said, so I won't comment more on that.

What I will comment is on what a great job the bladesmith and you did! The fluting is great, the head is wonderful. This reproduction is a true work of art, like what Vince Evans does with his Scottish dirks. Are the bases of the blade and the pommel copper? Looks like turquoise dots too. Is the pommel silver or steel?

Thank you for sharing - this is a true work of art!

[Harry Marinakis]

I agree, David, it's not truly a Tlingit dagger, it's a reproduction designed by a white guy and modified even more by a European.

I am really disappointed that I was unable to find a Tlingit who was willing to even respond to my inquiries about making a dagger. I guess the Tlingit dagger really is a "lost" art.

[ariel]

What difference would it make if the bladesmith was "pure" Tlingit, "half" Tlingit or no Tlingit at all? In any case the knife would remain a contemporary replica, unrelated to Tlingit history and tradition. Of course, you would like to have a genuine, 200 years old Tlingit knife ( who wouldn't!), but as long as there is no history behind it, the ethnicity of the creator is of no consequence. It is the artistic level that counts.

Shakespeare was English, but Hamlet was a Prince of Denmark, Romeo was Italian and Othello was a Moor.

My neighbor, Louis Mills, is a world-famous Nihonto bladesmith and his creations are sold in Japan for tens of thousands of dollars, and the best contemporary wootz-makers are in Russia,

On a topic closer to my heart, virtually all sushi places over here are owned and staffed by ethnic Koreans and some of their apprentices are White. Visiting Japanese patronize them all the time and judge them by the quality of rice and freshness of fish rather than by the ethnic origin of cooks.

A lot of Chinese junk on e-bay is made by purebred ethnic Chinese. Does it make their stuff any less junkier?


Harry, enjoy your knife, it is a first-class work of art. Nothing else counts.

[Iain]

A wonderful reproduction. Leo's work is always a joy to look at and it's interesting to see what he did with this although his usual area is European items.

Thanks for sharing.

[Sajen]

Beautiful reproduction, a real masterwork of art!

[David]

Originally Posted by Harry Marinakis

I am really disappointed that I was unable to find a Tlingit who was willing to even respond to my inquiries about making a dagger. I guess the Tlingit dagger really is a "lost" art.

I'm not yet convinced that it is a lost art Harry, though that may be the case. A dagger in the form of the one you have had made is not just any old utility knife to a Tlingit. It is a deeply spiritual ritual object and while daggers like these often fall into the custodianship of a single person they are usually considered to be tribal regalia of a sort. This may be the reason you could not find a Tlingit willing to make one for you.
What you have is truly a fine work of art, even if not an ethnographic one. One thing i would suggest is that as the commissioner of this piece you might want to take on the responsibility to ensure (to the best of your ability) that it is always properly represented. It would be a shame to see this dagger being passed off as a true Tlingit artifact 2 or 3 generations down the line and i think there is a good chance it could pass as such if it losses its connection to its true origin.

[Harry Marinakis]

Actually I made a decision long ago to refrain from buying "antiques." I prefer to support living artists who sustain the ancient traditions.

So even if I could buy an authentic 19th Century Tlingit dagger, I wouldn't.

[ariel]

Well, to each his own.
People collect even stranger things: stamps, Lalique, oils by Rembrandt :-)

[Harry Marinakis]

Originally Posted by David

...This may be the reason you could not find a Tlingit willing to make one for you...

The Tlingit (and other NW Coast natives) sell so much of their other spiritual and religious regalia that I do not believe that to be the reason. I have commissioned other "senstitive" cultural items and no one has ever balked at fulfilling my commission orders.

[David]

Originally Posted by Harry Marinakis

The Tlingit (and other NW Coast natives) sell so much of their other spiritual and religious regalia that I do not believe that to be the reason. I have commissioned other "senstitive" cultural items and no one has ever balked at fulfilling my commission orders.

I not sure what you mean by "sensitive" cultural items. NWC natives certainly produce and sell contemporary art for tourists and collectors and with this type of culture it would be difficult not to see some of their spiritual/religious nature come through in the commercial art. However, i still think that they might balk at the idea of producing a dagger such as this one for you.
Regardless, i still don't think the reason you could not find a Tlingit craftsman to make this for you was because it is a "lost art". If you have bought contemporary Tlingit art you can no doubt see that they have retained a fine level of craftsmanship in all forms and mediums. This dagger below, for instance, is a replica of Keet Gwalaa (Killer Whale Dagger) made by Harold Jacobs (A Tlingit and Cultural Resource Specialist with Central Council Tlingit and Haida Indian Tribes of Alaska) with the help of master carver Steve Brown (Assistant Curator of Native American art at the Seattle Art Museum) who carved the die used to cast the hilt in 1985. While Steve is a white guy i believe there are certainly many Tlingit carvers who would also be up to this task of carving this die. Steve has studied for years with the best of them and has worked very closely with the Tlinglit community. I believe this repro was made to replace the original dagger in the Penn Museum collection after Harold succeeded in getting the museum to return it to the tribe.
http://www.penn.museum/collections/object/354042