Curious Kris

ThePepperSkull · 28th October 2011, 08:53 AM

Posting this for posterity and to share this unusual piece. I think I've seen similar pieces but these aren't as common so I thought I'd share. Actually I'm surprised pics of this have not turned up on here yet.

If this is in the hands of anybody reading this, please post more pics of it! As always if anyone has anything to add, please do so!

ThePepperSkull · 28th October 2011, 08:55 AM

More pics.

Which region is this "Elephant Trunk" shape typically attributed to? Maguindanao?

Anyone familiar with Okir? The carving style looks unfamiliar to me but admittedly as little my eyes are trained to see the subtleties in blade shapes, they are even less attuned to recognize Okir.

Henk · 28th October 2011, 09:33 AM

My careful guess is that this kris has a broken tip that is reshaped into a dagger like tip. Still a very nice piece.

Gavin Nugent · 28th October 2011, 01:29 PM

A very very very rare Moro Sabre.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=rare+moro

It has been a very long time since I read Cato so I can not rememeber if these are mentioned...anyone care to comment?

Battara · 28th October 2011, 05:21 PM

Yes this is a kris varient. I agree that the trunk looks like the Maguindanao cross over type but the scabbard looks more Sulu. Not unheard of to do trade between the groups.

Rick · 28th October 2011, 07:19 PM

I think that this shape was made a purpose rather than reshaped .
The fuller curves up at the point .

I envy the owner .

VANDOO · 29th October 2011, 01:37 AM

PERHAPS THE SWORD TIP IS MODELED AFTER THE JAPANESE SWORD POINT.?

EITHER WAY A NICE AND RARE VARIATION OF KRIS.

laEspadaAncha · 29th October 2011, 02:12 AM

It is visually stunning, isn't it?

Any ideas, theories, or speculations as to what influenced this particular form? I like the above comparison of the asymmetrical profile/grind of the blade tip to the kissaki of a Japanese sword. Similar profiles were also found on swords from Dynastic China and Korea.

Rick · 29th October 2011, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

It is visually stunning, isn't it?

Any ideas, theories, or speculations as to what influenced this particular form? I like the above comparison of the asymmetrical profile/grind of the blade tip to the kissaki of a Japanese sword. Similar profiles were also found on swords from Dynastic China and Korea.

Reminds me a bit of a sailor's cutlass .

laEspadaAncha · 29th October 2011, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Reminds me a bit of a sailor's cutlass .

Indeed it does... Now when I stare at it, it's like the kris variant of this:

Nathaniel · 29th October 2011, 06:17 AM

Interesting piece

Sajen · 29th October 2011, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePepperSkull

Actually I'm surprised pics of this have not turned up on here yet.

When I remember correct there have been a thread before where was shown a kris with the same shape/tip. But can't remember when and where.

But did someone have seen before something like this: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...m=250919366807
The kris was listed at 27.10.11 and ended early at 28.10.11, I was the first bidder but I think that someone did a a deal with the seller.

Any comments?

Regards,

Detlef

kino · 29th October 2011, 02:15 PM

Sajen-Thanks for posting the link. With another forum member, we have seen and handled one very similar. The one you posted seems to be missing it's pommel. The one we handled had a ivory Kakatua. It was very graceful with a flexy blade. My thoughts are that the one we handled was a captured Euro., blade modified by a Panday (added the elephant trunk, ganya..). This one you posted is the 2nd one I've ever seen.

I'll post the link later, unless someone beats me to it

Sajen · 29th October 2011, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kino

Sajen-Thanks for posting the link. With another forum member, we have seen and handled one very similar. The one you posted seems to be missing it's pommel. The one we handled had a ivory Kakatua. It was very graceful with a flexy blade. My thoughts are that the one we handled was a captured Euro., blade modified by a Panday (added the elephant trunk, ganya..). This one you posted is the 2nd one I've ever seen.

I'll post the link later, unless someone beats me to it

Hello Kino,

yes, the seller write in his description: "The pommel piece is missing"

Regards,

Detlef

migueldiaz · 30th October 2011, 12:24 PM

There's a similar piece from the Burke Museum in Seattle. The link to the photo album is here.

Gavin Nugent · 30th October 2011, 12:52 PM

An awesome example, thanks for sharing.

Gustav · 30th October 2011, 02:24 PM

Another very interesting transitional form from Holstein's catalogue, twistcore. Perhaps somebody who owns a better copy could post it oncemore?

Gavin Nugent · 30th October 2011, 03:30 PM

A quick scan and edit...a little more defined....

kino · 30th October 2011, 05:51 PM

MiguelDiaz thanks for posting the photo and the link.

Rick · 30th October 2011, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

Indeed it does... Now when I stare at it, it's like the kris variant of this:

I must be a dull fellow .

This went right over my head .....

laEspadaAncha · 30th October 2011, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

This went right over my head .....

Just as the picture resolves itself into both a beautiful young woman and an old hag, I see an E. Asian influence in the blade one minute, a European cutlass the next...

Rick · 30th October 2011, 08:17 PM

Ahhh, finally I see it !
Thank you Ibrahiim .

Nirghosa · 2nd November 2011, 01:13 AM

The sabre kris is very, very high on my short aquisition list. Having handled one, it truely sings in the hand.

Gustav · 14th December 2011, 01:08 PM

More sabre-like pieces:

http://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology/...%2F%201444%20A

http://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology/...70.1%2F%209201

And the "more common" rare form:

http://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology/...70.1%2F%207745

http://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology/...70.1%2F%209197

And one real oddity from 1926, with clearly Terengganu (Malaysia) inspired hilt:

http://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology/...70.1%2F%207761

And one of the most beautiful krisses ever

:

http://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology/...%2F%208459%20A

David · 14th December 2011, 05:31 PM

Hmmm....the museum dates this last one as "Early 20th Century". Does that date seem a bit off to anyone else?

migueldiaz · 14th December 2011, 05:48 PM

thanks, gustav, for the links! i can see in the pic of the museum catalogue pages (example below) that they have lots of barungs and moro spears. how does one access the pics of those?

Gustav · 14th December 2011, 10:22 PM

Hello Migueldiaz, just put "Barong" in the search box (left side):

http://anthro.amnh.org/asia

migueldiaz · 15th December 2011, 12:55 AM

Hello Gustav. Many thanks!

Battara · 15th December 2011, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Hmmm....the museum dates this last one as "Early 20th Century". Does that date seem a bit off to anyone else?

I'm with you on that. Perhaps more accurately the period when they were collected........

Yes thanks Gustav.

nacho · 1st May 2012, 04:56 AM

A rare moro kris sabre was sold in an auction this morning.

28th October 2011, 08:53 AM	#1
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	Curious Kris Posting this for posterity and to share this unusual piece. I think I've seen similar pieces but these aren't as common so I thought I'd share. Actually I'm surprised pics of this have not turned up on here yet. If this is in the hands of anybody reading this, please post more pics of it! As always if anyone has anything to add, please do so! Attached Images

28th October 2011, 08:55 AM	#2
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	More pics. Which region is this "Elephant Trunk" shape typically attributed to? Maguindanao? Anyone familiar with Okir? The carving style looks unfamiliar to me but admittedly as little my eyes are trained to see the subtleties in blade shapes, they are even less attuned to recognize Okir. Attached Images Last edited by ThePepperSkull; 28th October 2011 at 09:28 AM.

28th October 2011, 01:29 PM	#4
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	A very very very rare Moro Sabre. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=rare+moro It has been a very long time since I read Cato so I can not rememeber if these are mentioned...anyone care to comment? Attached Images Last edited by freebooter; 28th October 2011 at 01:39 PM.

30th October 2011, 12:24 PM	#15
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	There's a similar piece from the Burke Museum in Seattle. The link to the photo album is here. Attached Images

30th October 2011, 02:24 PM	#17
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,249	Another very interesting transitional form from Holstein's catalogue, twistcore. Perhaps somebody who owns a better copy could post it oncemore? Attached Images

28th October 2011, 09:33 AM	#3
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	My careful guess is that this kris has a broken tip that is reshaped into a dagger like tip. Still a very nice piece.

28th October 2011, 05:21 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	Yes this is a kris varient. I agree that the trunk looks like the Maguindanao cross over type but the scabbard looks more Sulu. Not unheard of to do trade between the groups.

28th October 2011, 07:19 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	I think that this shape was made a purpose rather than reshaped . The fuller curves up at the point . I envy the owner .

29th October 2011, 01:37 AM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	PERHAPS THE SWORD TIP IS MODELED AFTER THE JAPANESE SWORD POINT.? EITHER WAY A NICE AND RARE VARIATION OF KRIS.

29th October 2011, 02:12 AM	#8
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	It is visually stunning, isn't it? Any ideas, theories, or speculations as to what influenced this particular form? I like the above comparison of the asymmetrical profile/grind of the blade tip to the kissaki of a Japanese sword. Similar profiles were also found on swords from Dynastic China and Korea.

29th October 2011, 06:17 AM	#11
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	Interesting piece

29th October 2011, 02:15 PM	#13
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,007	Sajen-Thanks for posting the link. With another forum member, we have seen and handled one very similar. The one you posted seems to be missing it's pommel. The one we handled had a ivory Kakatua. It was very graceful with a flexy blade. My thoughts are that the one we handled was a captured Euro., blade modified by a Panday (added the elephant trunk, ganya..). This one you posted is the 2nd one I've ever seen. I'll post the link later, unless someone beats me to it

30th October 2011, 12:52 PM	#16
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	An awesome example, thanks for sharing.

30th October 2011, 03:30 PM	#18
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	A quick scan and edit...a little more defined.... Attached Images

30th October 2011, 05:51 PM	#19
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,007	MiguelDiaz thanks for posting the photo and the link.

30th October 2011, 08:17 PM	#22
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Ahhh, finally I see it ! Thank you Ibrahiim .

2nd November 2011, 01:13 AM	#23
Nirghosa Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 119	The sabre kris is very, very high on my short aquisition list. Having handled one, it truely sings in the hand.

14th December 2011, 01:08 PM	#24
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,249	More sabre-like pieces: http://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology/...%2F%201444%20A http://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology/...70.1%2F%209201 And the "more common" rare form: http://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology/...70.1%2F%207745 http://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology/...70.1%2F%209197 And one real oddity from 1926, with clearly Terengganu (Malaysia) inspired hilt: http://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology/...70.1%2F%207761 And one of the most beautiful krisses ever : http://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology/...%2F%208459%20A Last edited by Gustav; 14th December 2011 at 01:29 PM.

14th December 2011, 05:31 PM	#25
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,127	Hmmm....the museum dates this last one as "Early 20th Century". Does that date seem a bit off to anyone else?

14th December 2011, 05:48 PM	#26
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	thanks, gustav, for the links! i can see in the pic of the museum catalogue pages (example below) that they have lots of barungs and moro spears. how does one access the pics of those? Attached Images

14th December 2011, 10:22 PM	#27
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,249	Hello Migueldiaz, just put "Barong" in the search box (left side): http://anthro.amnh.org/asia

15th December 2011, 12:55 AM	#28
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	Hello Gustav. Many thanks!

1st May 2012, 04:56 AM	#30
nacho Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Makati Posts: 69	A rare moro kris sabre was sold in an auction this morning. Attached Images