keris hilts for identification

Green · 2nd March 2017, 01:55 AM

I had obtained these hilts recently and wonder if any of you can give information on them.

My understanding is this; the pale coloured ones are probably bones and the rest could be deer antlers? or even marine ivory? and they are from jawa ..ceribon?

What characters these figures are based on?

Marcokeris · 2nd March 2017, 10:49 AM

IMO seem all by deer horn and came from Madura ....or North cost of Java (pulasir). They could represent Rakshasa or other demons.

A. G. Maisey · 2nd March 2017, 11:59 AM

Yes, Marco is correct, this type of figure is what we usually refer to as a raksasa, they were commonly used along the north coast of Jawa, the pesisir, but these ones were probably quite recently carved in Madura. I cannot tell what the material is from a photograph, but most likely it is bone.

Green · 2nd March 2017, 01:55 PM

Many thanks Alan and Marco for the explanation. The figures look like different characters . Wondering if each is a specific raksasa eg Ravana?or whatever?

And what kind of blades do they usually fitted to? (I mean would a bugis or spokal blade suitable for these or are they specific to certain dhapur?

David · 2nd March 2017, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green

Many thanks Alan and Marco for the explanation. The figures look like different characters . Wondering if each is a specific raksasa eg Ravana?or whatever?

And what kind of blades do they usually fitted to? (I mean would a bugis or spokal blade suitable for these or are they specific to certain dhapur?

Green, i seriously doubt that these hilts depict any specific raksasa, simply different artistic interpretations of the figure. The raksasa generally have fangs and flowing wavy hair as seem to be depicted in one way or another in all these examples.
These would not be appropriate for any bugis blades really. It isn't so much a matter of dhapur as the cultural region that they belong to. They would be best suited to blades from North Jawa.

Green · 2nd March 2017, 04:43 PM

Many thanks David for the explanation.

A. G. Maisey · 2nd March 2017, 11:00 PM

A hilt should harmonise with the wrongko.

Blades within wrongkos can vary significantly in origin, and might not come from the same geographic point of origin as the dress. We sometimes find Bugis, Madura sepuh, and Balinese blades in Central Jawa dress.

Why?

Mostly because in times past the local rulers employed people from these areas as mercenaries. But another reason is because somebody from another region has moved to a new area, and has brought his keris with him.

Then there is trade. There are lots of Madurese and Javanese blades from Jawa and Madura in wrongkos from all over Maritime S.E. Asia. This trade started in Mojopahit times and continued through Mataram and right into the 19th century. I have a Bugis keris that was collected in Batavia in about 1920 that has an easily identifiable Madurese blade in it, and the wrongko was made for this blade.

All across S.E.Asia, and beyond, Javanese blades had a reputation for very high quality, and during Mataram times they formed a significant item of trade. They were even traded as far as Sri Langka.

Blades from some places can carry all of the characteristics of blades from other places, for example, the Palembang blades that look exactly like Central Jawa blades, or the multitude of Bugis blades that look so similar that it is often self delusion to form an opinion that a blade comes from one place or another.

Dress should harmonise and relate to geographic area.

Blades within dress can vary.

Green · 3rd March 2017, 01:13 PM

Many thanks Alan for the above explanation.

On another note, my understanding is that one of the features of 'old' (but not necessarily antique) hilts is to see the hairline cracks on the material. I have seen a lot of new bone hilt carvings and they do not show these cracks.

All the above hilts pictured show marked cracks and I would assume that they would be 'old' as cracks would only appear as they age? . Is this understanding wrong? in other words do new hilts also show cracks?

2nd March 2017, 01:55 AM	#1
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 312	keris hilts for identification I had obtained these hilts recently and wonder if any of you can give information on them. My understanding is this; the pale coloured ones are probably bones and the rest could be deer antlers? or even marine ivory? and they are from jawa ..ceribon? What characters these figures are based on? Attached Images

2nd March 2017, 10:49 AM	#2
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	IMO seem all by deer horn and came from Madura ....or North cost of Java (pulasir). They could represent Rakshasa or other demons.

2nd March 2017, 11:59 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	Yes, Marco is correct, this type of figure is what we usually refer to as a raksasa, they were commonly used along the north coast of Jawa, the pesisir, but these ones were probably quite recently carved in Madura. I cannot tell what the material is from a photograph, but most likely it is bone.

2nd March 2017, 01:55 PM	#4
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 312	Many thanks Alan and Marco for the explanation. The figures look like different characters . Wondering if each is a specific raksasa eg Ravana?or whatever? And what kind of blades do they usually fitted to? (I mean would a bugis or spokal blade suitable for these or are they specific to certain dhapur?

2nd March 2017, 04:43 PM	#6
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 312	Many thanks David for the explanation.

2nd March 2017, 11:00 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	A hilt should harmonise with the wrongko. Blades within wrongkos can vary significantly in origin, and might not come from the same geographic point of origin as the dress. We sometimes find Bugis, Madura sepuh, and Balinese blades in Central Jawa dress. Why? Mostly because in times past the local rulers employed people from these areas as mercenaries. But another reason is because somebody from another region has moved to a new area, and has brought his keris with him. Then there is trade. There are lots of Madurese and Javanese blades from Jawa and Madura in wrongkos from all over Maritime S.E. Asia. This trade started in Mojopahit times and continued through Mataram and right into the 19th century. I have a Bugis keris that was collected in Batavia in about 1920 that has an easily identifiable Madurese blade in it, and the wrongko was made for this blade. All across S.E.Asia, and beyond, Javanese blades had a reputation for very high quality, and during Mataram times they formed a significant item of trade. They were even traded as far as Sri Langka. Blades from some places can carry all of the characteristics of blades from other places, for example, the Palembang blades that look exactly like Central Jawa blades, or the multitude of Bugis blades that look so similar that it is often self delusion to form an opinion that a blade comes from one place or another. Dress should harmonise and relate to geographic area. Blades within dress can vary.

3rd March 2017, 01:13 PM	#8
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 312	Many thanks Alan for the above explanation. On another note, my understanding is that one of the features of 'old' (but not necessarily antique) hilts is to see the hairline cracks on the material. I have seen a lot of new bone hilt carvings and they do not show these cracks. All the above hilts pictured show marked cracks and I would assume that they would be 'old' as cracks would only appear as they age? . Is this understanding wrong? in other words do new hilts also show cracks?