the lost oakeshott sword

[cornelistromp]

almost every student of the medieval sword knows this sword, but I think nobody ever saw a picture of it.
So here is the "primeur".
It is the sword that made a big impression on the former art student Ewart Oakeshott, long before he made his classification of the medieval sword, who made a truthful sketch of it and saved it for at least 65 years. This was in 1935 when the sword was auctioned at Sothebys.

Oakeshott has later published his sketch in several books and articles for its enormous size and rarity.
first in records of the medieval sword as a type XIII.4 and later in an article, fire or triumph in Gun Report Magazine / sword in hand, and article about an unusually large size sword, as the correct type XIIIb.
(swords of this size should really deserve their own classification)
In his life studying the medieval sword Ewart Oakeshott encountered only 3 other swords of this heroic dimension, only two which are of the Same date as the above discussed.(the third is a later 1325 Type XIV in the Metropolitan Museum in NY.

The first is a well known Enormous sword in the Musee de l'Armee, the second one is a less known huge type XIA, in a private collection, the Pontirolo sword. The third is a 200 year later type XIV in the metropolitan dated (1325).

The sword has 2 very old nails hammered through the blade just under the cross, so after its working life it has hung somewhere as a symbol, maybe in a church.

[Lee]

Very nice! Thank you for sharing this; it is always a pleasure as some of these swords 'resurface' after 'slumbering' somewhere for many decades. Speaking of decades, over the past decade I have gotten rare e-mails from the current owners of a couple of the other swords that had impressed Ewart Oakeshott sufficiently for him to include them in his writings.

[Cerjak]

Few days ago I have received one copy of Sword – Form and Thought and I have read the unbelievable story about your beautiful and rare sword.
I still not understand how a dealer could have done this work ! because I can’t believe that it could be made by a museum or a collector.
It is right that it is not the first time that Ewart Oakeshott made such mistake in measurement and also you have a second example in your collection. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11231.
But it was really a stupid idea to enlarge the blade in order to match with Ewart Oakeshott description’s.
This sword is so uncommon with his large pommel and blade that no doubt was possible about his origin.. It is really crazy discovery.
A fantastic sword Indeed .
I have noticed a second sword from your collection (a so beautiful type XVI A n°23 P 98,I like very much this sword with a very rare type of pommel and also a sword in excellent condition.
This medieval sword is a jewel and you are lucky to have it in your collection.
Jewel
Best
Jean-Luc

[cornelistromp]

Yes strange world.
a friend and authority in the field of medieval weapons had studied the sword at a very well known dealer in the UK in 2003.
Then, luckily he had taken records of all the measurements.
The length however did not correspond to the dimensions I gave him in 2011

After a long search we ( actually he did at the RA) found the old catalog of Sotheby 1935 where the sword was depicted. see Appendix. Oakeshott has also based his drawing in ROMS on the image in the catalog.

I have pictures of the sword taken in 2007 by a dealer and by then the sword was already extended.

The sword has been in possession of two UK dealers between 2003 and 2007.
one of the two has made the ridiculous decision between 2003 and 2007 to extend the sword to the estimated size that Oakeshott has given in ROMS.

Oakeshott was not very good in dimensions, he used the principle
"best he could recall" and after 56 years of seeing the sword, it became a guess I suppose.

this information , that the sword was 14 cm longer was known to me and submitted before the geometric study and exhibition, to Peter Johnsson and museum curator.

After the exhibition the new point which was fixed around the old one has been removed by the restorer of the museum, the sword is back to the original length.

Also inscriptions and details came forth after the thick layer of paint had been removed by the restorer.

the sword looks beautiful again


best,
Jasper

[fernando]

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

... After the exhibition the new point which was fixed around the old one has been removed by the restorer of the museum and the sword is back to the original length.

inscriptions and details came forth after the thick layer of paint has been removed by the restorer.

the sword looks beautiful now...

Not so often a story with such bad start turns up having such an excelent ending .

[Reventlov]

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

Also inscriptions and details came forth after the thick layer of paint had been removed by the restorer.

Do tell! Are the inscriptions legible? I am very curious and would love to see photos...

Peter Johnsson has shared some additional thoughts about this interesting sword and possible "cousins" in a recent thread of mine that may be of interest to forum members here also.

http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=317321#317321

A sword in the Wallace Collection has a somewhat similar very thin, flat pommel... there's a recent paper that reveals it had a very delicate silver inscription, but sadly it's all but obliterated.

https://www.academia.edu/29498453/An...Collection.pdf

cheers,
Mark

[cornelistromp]

herewith the pictures of the sword after the restoration.
several layers of paint of hundreds of years old have been removed from the blade.

it was a risk, because it was not known how the general condition of the steel would be covered for 100 of years in in paint and whether the new point which was mounted around the old point could be removed neatly. Fortunately everything turned out well. see attached picture of restored sword next to picture from Sotheby's catalogue in 1935.

there are two residues of big nails discovered in the blade.
One nail head is clearly visible on the Sotheby photo from 1935, left on the blade near the cross. the other head on the other side of the cross at 38cm.
Further, at 12cm from the point is an old restoration in which a hole in the blade was covered with a steel plate, plugged with 6 rivets. The plate steel is almost gone but 4 rivets and two rivet holes are visible. This restoration is probably centuries old.

Given the layers of paint, 2 fastening nails through the blade and very old restoration to the point, this sword has probably been hung for a long time at a chain, probably dry in the open air, in or outside a church or castle?

Maybe this is the sword that has been lost in Rocamadour at the beginning of the last century, DURENDAL 


after removal of the paint, an inscription became visible SOS on one side and OSO on the other side. Well is it an S? the S here is composed of a wavy line, and two dashes.

SOS stands for Salvator Omnipotens Salvator and can be part of an Inscription ;

Cum quo ei Dominus S. O. S. (Salvator Omnipotens Salvator) auxilietur adversus partes amen


(source TWO INCRUSTED MEDIEVAL SWORDS FROM ZBASZYN, LUBUSZ VOIVODSHIP, Marian Głosek Tadeusz Makiewicz)

another sword 1100-1199 with SOS inscription is ROMS XIa.1 a sword in the Royal Armouries, Leeds (IX.1082), interpreted by Oakeshott as Sancta O maria Sancta.


This sword dates from the end of the 12th century to the mid 13th century and there are a small number of this type known.

The most important, certainly the most impressive and for me the most beautiful one, is a sword in the Real Ameria in Madrid. G22
The Sword of San Fernando III (on this sword was a claim from the early 16thC that this sword could be the sword of Roland, DURENDAL.)


Best,
Jasper

[cornelistromp]

G22 sword of Fernando III

[Cerjak]

Jasper
They did a perfect works for you !
A real luck that you have made the loan for this exhibition .
I would like to have the same good relationship with the Heeresgeschichtliches Museum in Vienna for my helmet !
best
Jean-luc

[Reventlov]

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

herewith the pictures of the sword after the restoration.
several layers of paint of hundreds of years old have been removed from the blade.

it was a risk, because it was not known how the general condition of the steel would be covered for 100 of years in in paint and whether the new point which was mounted around the old point could be removed neatly. Fortunately everything turned out well.

Thanks so much for sharing the new photos! My curiosity is satisfied... It is great to see the restoration has been such a success.

I think it is very interesting to find this inscription on your sword. The unusual form of the sword is so immediately striking to modern viewers, and yet (as I'm sure you know) the SOS/OSO inscription is not so rare. So in a way, the sword is still "part of the family" and perhaps once upon a time, would not have seemed so unusual at all.

I do not think it is likely that it is a trace of a longer inscription... the 18th c. illustration of the inscription that was once present on the Szcerbiec can be seen in the article "Szcerbiec - the coronation sword of the Kings of Poland" from 2011, and it's actual appearance is as follows:

CVM . QVO . EI DNS . OS . AVXIL
ETVR . ADUS . PARTES . AMEN

So in this case the first "S" is simply the last letter of "dominus", and the "OS" stands alone, no doubt meaning "omnipotens Salvator" or "omnium Salvator". Nevertheless, the stand-alone SOS sequences surely seem to refer to a similar invocation!

The sword in the Real Armeria is of course an amazing artifact, even if it is not Durendal... If I remember correctly, does not the earliest(?) source for this attribution to Roland also mis-name it "Joyosa", which would be Charlemagne's sword? Someone did not read the Chanson carefully! The history of these various claims and attributions of legendary swords is a whole topic in itself, and coincidentally is something I have been reading about lately.

best,
Mark

[cornelistromp]

Hi Mark,

thanks.

btw have you seen this constructed S before in an inscription?

in 1250 the sword type was probably more common, the image of BIG swords with similar pommels can be seen in 13thC manuscripts.

now, however big swords are less common, there are only 5 early medieval swords known having a width of about 7cm. in any case, more than 6cm

re: G22 Durendal
yes that is correct, in an inventory by caspar Bricio made in 1503.
he describes this sword named Joyosa belonging to Roldan

"se dice la joyosa de bel cortar, que fue de Roldan"

best,
jasper

[Reventlov]

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

btw have you seen this constructed S before in an inscription?

in 1250 the sword type was probably more common, the image of BIG swords with similar pommels can be seen in 13thC manuscripts.

That's a great illustration of this type of blade.

Good question about the form of the letter S... I cannot recall having seen such a form before, but would have to start inspecting photos to say for sure. I'll write you if I ever come across one... A form that is not uncommon is the S written as two separate opposing arcs, something like "CƆ", so in principle at least there is no problem with letters made of separate segments.

[cornelistromp]

Originally Posted by Reventlov

That's a great illustration of this type of blade.

not only the blade actually also the wide pommel.

best,

[silberschatzimsee]

really very nice swords. its a shame that some scrupeled people ruin them.

[Clive Thomas]

Hi Jasper,

So good to see this sword again, post restoration. Whoever did the work has done an excellent job, and I was delighted to see the SOS marks that had been hidden for so long too.

[Cerjak]

It is a great opportunity to have a post from Clive Thomas .
It is his first post in the forum .
Hoping It will have More post from him.
Best
Cerjak
see
King of Emirs. Pious donations of European swords to the Arsenal of Alexandria during the time of the Viceroy Sayf al?din Aristay'
Author : Clive Thomas

Additional Notes on the Swords of Castillon'
Author : Clive Thomas

Notes on a small group of swords from the Arsenal of Alexandria'
Author : Clive Thomas

[fernando]

It is indeed with great satisfaction that we welcome to this forum such medieval swords authority like Mr. Clive Thomas.

[Clive Thomas]

Thank you Cerjak and Fernando! It's a bit of a late reply, I know, but your kind words are much appreciated.

[fernando]

With pleasure

[Gonzalo G]

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

re: G22 Durendal
yes that is correct, in an inventory by caspar Bricio made in 1503.
he describes this sword named Joyosa belonging to Roldan

"se dice la joyosa de bel cortar, que fue de Roldan"

best,
jasper

I only want to place some references with respect of this sword. Carlos Travesedo y García Sancho, 26vo Conde de Valencia de Don Juan, in his Catálogo de la Real Armería de Madrid, Fototipias de Hauser y Menet, Madrid, 1898, writes on the pages 204-205, the following words:

"The so-called sword of Roldan has a metal workmanship on the scabbard proper of a Spanish craftsman from the 13th Century, and this is confirmed by the craftsmanship and proportions of the blade, and by the comparison with other swords from this period found in the museums, codex and illustration. The confusion came from the time of the Catholic Kings, as proved by the inventory made in Segovia in 1503, mentioning the sword Joyeuse. It is known that always were invented singular and incredible origins for many objects from past times, without any study or basis, pretending to give them a undeserved importance by association with famous personages. Only in this way can be explained a so great error as attributing to Roldan a sword made 500 years after."

And David Nicolle, in astudy of two swords found in a cave in Gibraltar, in relation with the so-called sword of Roland, writes:

“Furthermore the sword with straight quillons was suggested as a Christian adaptation of an early version of the ‘jinete sword’; parallels being drawn with the 13th century Sword of King Sancho IV in Toledo Cathedral (figure 48) In fact the closest parallel appears to be between the blades of the Gibraltar swords and the weapon known as ‘The Sword of Roland’ in the Real Armeria (figure 34). This latter weapon is generally regarded as a 13th century Spanish war-sword, rather than one to be worn while in civilian dress. According to Baron de la Vega de Hoz its blade is 88 cms long with a maximum width of 73 mm. This would give it very similar dimensions to the Gibraltar swords in their original condition. Most other scholars who have seen the Gibraltar swords or pictures of them agree on an Islamic, and usually a specifically Western Islamic, provenance while suggesting a rather later date than I am offering. For example, Ihsan Hindi suggested that their overall form and decoration pointed to Cordoba some time in the 13th century. Maya Schatzmiller preferred North Africa and a date as late as the 14th or even 15th century while Ewart Oakeshott would say no more than they they were clearly Islamic."

David Nicolle, “Two Swords from the Foundation of Gibraltar”, Gladius, Vol. XXII, 2002, pp.168 and 170.

[cornelistromp]

Gonzalo,

very interesting, can you maybe post a picture of the Gibraltar swords?

thanks,
Jasper

[fernando]

Hello Jasper,

I wonder why Gonzalo has not been around for quite a few days. Have you tried this link:

GIBRALTAR SWORDS

[cornelistromp]

Originally Posted by fernando

Hello Jasper,

I wonder why Gonzalo has not been around for quite a few days. Have you tried this link:

GIBRALTAR SWORDS

Hi Fernando,

yes thanks, that helps.

best,
Jasper

[J.G.Elmslie]

I dont post here nearly often enough, instead lurking every so often.

But I felt I had to come up to the surface to say that I'm overjoyed to see the sympathetic restoration of this sword, and the removal of that offending grafted piece.

I cant help wonder, is the offending part now destroyed? I've been talking a lot with a few other craftsmen like Peter, Fabrice Cognot, and Paul Binns of late about the issues of forgeries, and if its still around, I wonder if it could be put to use as a perfect example of a modern piece that's been aged, and thus used as a reference for metallurgical / XRF study, to help identify other forgeries?

(In my own field of single-edged arms, I'm rather inclined to think of one particular single-edged sword auctioned by Hermann Historica a few years ago that I identified as a composite of two blades spliced together in a similar manner to your sword's extension.)

[cornelistromp]

Hi James,

Thank you, yes I am very pleased with the successful restoration, thumbs to the restorer of the Solingen Klingen Museum.

unfortunately I have not received the 14cm removed point back from the restorer , probably it was thrown away/wasted.
By the way, I believe this point was not new and aged but coming from another medieval sword blade!

best,
jasper

[J.G.Elmslie]

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

By the way, I believe this point was not new and aged but coming from another medieval sword blade!

best,
jasper

I'm not going to repeat the language I just used in polite company, but it rhymes with "mucking stunts"

that's utterly shameful.

[cornelistromp]

I see this as an incredibly stupid action.

But I believe one of the two UK dealers ( or Both) really believed that the dimensions in roms, given by Oakeshott, they thought he measured in 1936, were the right dimensions for this sword.

Of course, such restoration, especially when not mentioned to a new owner (me) can not be justified.

Fortunately, now very happy with the professional removal of the extended point

best,
jasper

[Tordenskiold1721]

Interesting and educational topic with good documentation a follow ups since it started. Defiantly the right thing too do, having the extension removed.

I am always a bit "nervous" when having historically interesting and expensive items restored. Guess it must have been the same feeling having work done on such a special sword.

[cornelistromp]

similar type XIII sword in Museum Sandolin.
(medieval) swords with wide blades, a blade width of around 7cm are extremely rare.