Philippine Dagger?

Robert · 5th August 2005, 08:21 PM

I beleave this dagger to be from the Philippines though I'm not quit sure. I would like to hear the opinions of the experts on this.

Blade lenth is 9-7/16 inches.
Blade width is 1-1/16 inch.
Blade thickness is 1/4 inch.
Hilt lenth is 4-1/8 inch.
Fittings are brass.
Grip is beautifully carved horn.
Tang goes through the grip and is rivited over.
Medial ridge on both sides of blade.

Robert

Bill · 6th August 2005, 11:33 PM

Hi Robert, I'll vote with you that it is from the PI, but I guess it could have come from Mexico, So. America or a half a dozen other places. Has the appearance that it came from a Spanish colony, some 100 years+?

Robert · 7th August 2005, 06:20 AM

Bill,
Thank you for your thoughts on this. I was thinking Spanish Colonial Philippines but seeing as I'm still quite knew at collecting I like to get opinions from the experts on the pieces I aquire. If anyone else has any opinions on this dagger please feel free to post them as I would like to get as much input on this piece as possible. Thanks.

Robert

Ian · 9th August 2005, 10:45 AM

Hi Robert:

I agree with the "Spanish Colonial" attribution, probably late 19th or early 20th C. based on other similar examples. Hard to say whether Mexican or Filipino. There was considerable cultural exchange between the two colonial centers up to the end of the 19th C.

Ian.

Robert · 9th August 2005, 07:29 PM

Ian,
Thank you. Could you please tell me where I might be able to see other examples of this style of dagger? Thanks again.

Robert

Ian · 9th August 2005, 11:28 PM

Sure Robert.

There are a couple of older threads you may want to check out. These still have their pictures intact.

http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000961.html

http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001816.html

The style of your knife is similar to those emerging from Albacete in Spain during the mid- to late-19th C. Marc is our resident authority on this subject and provided insights into this style in one of those threads. It was a popular style and seems to have spread widely through the Spanish Colonial Empire. Whether the style originated in Albacete is debatable, but there appears to have been many knives from that region in the style.

Ian.

Robert · 10th August 2005, 03:42 AM

Ian,
I knew I could count on you. This is exactly the kind of information I was looking for. Being relatively new here I had no idea this kind of dagger had been dicussed before. Thank you again.

Robert

Ian · 10th August 2005, 06:30 AM

Pleased to be able to help a little, Robert.

Robert · 2nd February 2008, 01:15 AM

This is another post that I thought I'd bring back up to see if there are any more thoughts as to this daggers country of origin. The brass fittings have a very well done lead solder seem. I think it is very possibly Philippine because of this and the style of the carving but would like to know what the experts think. Here are a few new pictures that will hopefully help in it's identification. There is some engraving on the ferrel behind the guard that can be seen in some of the pictures. Too bad that there was no sheath with this when I found it. I have one that fits it very well but did not show it as it could be very misleading when trying to identify the daggers country of origin.

Robert

Battara · 2nd February 2008, 09:23 PM

I'm more in the Mexico camp. As Ian says it could be PI, but the style of carving and the quillons point more 19th century Mexico to me.

Robert · 3rd February 2008, 11:17 PM

Hi Jose,
Thank you for your opinion on this dagger. So 19th century Mexico seems to be the consensus on this piece. One more question if you don't mind. What is it about the quillons that makes them look more from Mexico, the overall shape or the length? I'm still learning and need all the help I can get.

Thank you again for your help.

Robert

Battara · 4th February 2008, 11:33 PM

Nothing is 100% for sure.

That being said, I have found PI northern daggers to be not flat and widely oval like this one but more stylized and if flat, flat toward the vertical vs the horizontal (like this one).

5th August 2005, 08:21 PM	#1
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Philippine Dagger? I beleave this dagger to be from the Philippines though I'm not quit sure. I would like to hear the opinions of the experts on this. Blade lenth is 9-7/16 inches. Blade width is 1-1/16 inch. Blade thickness is 1/4 inch. Hilt lenth is 4-1/8 inch. Fittings are brass. Grip is beautifully carved horn. Tang goes through the grip and is rivited over. Medial ridge on both sides of blade. Robert Attached Images

2nd February 2008, 01:15 AM	#9
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	This is another post that I thought I'd bring back up to see if there are any more thoughts as to this daggers country of origin. The brass fittings have a very well done lead solder seem. I think it is very possibly Philippine because of this and the style of the carving but would like to know what the experts think. Here are a few new pictures that will hopefully help in it's identification. There is some engraving on the ferrel behind the guard that can be seen in some of the pictures. Too bad that there was no sheath with this when I found it. I have one that fits it very well but did not show it as it could be very misleading when trying to identify the daggers country of origin. Robert Attached Images Last edited by Robert Coleman; 2nd February 2008 at 04:16 PM.

6th August 2005, 11:33 PM	#2
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Hi Robert, I'll vote with you that it is from the PI, but I guess it could have come from Mexico, So. America or a half a dozen other places. Has the appearance that it came from a Spanish colony, some 100 years+?

7th August 2005, 06:20 AM	#3
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Bill, Thank you for your thoughts on this. I was thinking Spanish Colonial Philippines but seeing as I'm still quite knew at collecting I like to get opinions from the experts on the pieces I aquire. If anyone else has any opinions on this dagger please feel free to post them as I would like to get as much input on this piece as possible. Thanks. Robert

9th August 2005, 10:45 AM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,198	Hi Robert: I agree with the "Spanish Colonial" attribution, probably late 19th or early 20th C. based on other similar examples. Hard to say whether Mexican or Filipino. There was considerable cultural exchange between the two colonial centers up to the end of the 19th C. Ian.

9th August 2005, 07:29 PM	#5
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Ian, Thank you. Could you please tell me where I might be able to see other examples of this style of dagger? Thanks again. Robert

9th August 2005, 11:28 PM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,198	Sure Robert. There are a couple of older threads you may want to check out. These still have their pictures intact. http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000961.html http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001816.html The style of your knife is similar to those emerging from Albacete in Spain during the mid- to late-19th C. Marc is our resident authority on this subject and provided insights into this style in one of those threads. It was a popular style and seems to have spread widely through the Spanish Colonial Empire. Whether the style originated in Albacete is debatable, but there appears to have been many knives from that region in the style. Ian.

10th August 2005, 03:42 AM	#7
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Ian, I knew I could count on you. This is exactly the kind of information I was looking for. Being relatively new here I had no idea this kind of dagger had been dicussed before. Thank you again. Robert

10th August 2005, 06:30 AM	#8
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,198	Pleased to be able to help a little, Robert.

2nd February 2008, 09:23 PM	#10
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	I'm more in the Mexico camp. As Ian says it could be PI, but the style of carving and the quillons point more 19th century Mexico to me.

3rd February 2008, 11:17 PM	#11
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hi Jose, Thank you for your opinion on this dagger. So 19th century Mexico seems to be the consensus on this piece. One more question if you don't mind. What is it about the quillons that makes them look more from Mexico, the overall shape or the length? I'm still learning and need all the help I can get. Thank you again for your help. Robert

4th February 2008, 11:33 PM	#12
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Nothing is 100% for sure. That being said, I have found PI northern daggers to be not flat and widely oval like this one but more stylized and if flat, flat toward the vertical vs the horizontal (like this one).