Catalogue of my collection

[BluErf]

Since I've spent so much time uploading pictures of my keris collection (and a bit of other stuff) , I thought I might as well do a bit of 'shameless advertising'... Pardon me...

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...bum.php&page=1

Some are 'average joe' kerises, some are interesting, and some, imho, are quite nice actually. Some are flashy, some have subtle beauty, and some just take time to grow a liking to. I thought it's an interesting cross-section of the world of keris.

Check back once in a while. I'll probably have new updates from time to time. Thank you.

[simatua]

here are some good kerises online!

Saw the site before, but then my computer was to slow.
really....really nice !! keep it up !

Saw one of your kerises mentioned as lawe saukel (lawe satukel)
I thought for myself this was a lawe satukel
-attached a photo from my own collection-

greetings

[BluErf]

Hi Simatua,

The pamor on you keris is very nicely executed. In fact, I was just musing about when I would be able to get a keris with pamor like that yesterday! What coincidence.

I've added pics of another Solonese keris to the album (pg 3).

Btw, you are most welcome to register at kampungnet. I believe you would be able to have your own album and share pictures of your collection with everyone! Our fellow forumnite, Alam Shah, can help you with the registration.

[nechesh]

Thanks for sharing Kai Wee. You have some nice pieces there, especially when it comes to fine examples of various forms of dress. Some exquisite carving there!
I left a message on one of your ukirans that i am sure you will argue with.

[VANDOO]

I ENJOYED LOOKING THRU YOUR COLLECTION, A VERY PLESANT THING TO DO ON A COLD SNOWEY NIGHT. I ESPECIALLY LIKE YOUR MORO KRIS WITH THE FOSSIL ELEPHANT TOOTH POMEL AND THE KINGFISHER KERIS. THANKS FOR SHAREING.

[BluErf]

Hey guys, thanks for your support!

And nechesh, yes, you certainly know me. I'd like to hear your opinion on what the hilt represents.

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_photo.php

I thought all the major keris hilt forms (maybe except for the jawa demam) are representations of deities and supernatural beings derived from animism, Buddhism, Hinduism and the Hindu epics (Ramayana, Mahabharata).

I have read that in many parts of Southeast Asia, the coming of Islam did not result in the outright abandonment of old beliefs, and fear/respect of old deities, spirits and supernatural beings. Thus, in order not to breach the tenets of Islam, and yet not offend/discard the old deities and spirits, some carvers found ways to hide features of the original image in vegetal motifs. If you look carefully at the hilt, you can actually see 2 eyes (2 'c's beneath the crown), a nose (the 'double-hooked' oblong shape), and 2 fangs (2 'c's flanking the lower ends of the nose).

Also, if you look at the other pictures of this hilt, you can see the 'ear-covers'* on the side of the head. This 'ear-cover' goes all the way down from the side of the head to the shoulder. This part of the headdress/crown is commonly worn by the 'literal' rashaksa hilts.

So my argument would be that it is a rashaksa, and it evolved from the 'literal' rashaksa forms under the influence of Islam, which forbids the depiction of idols.


Actually, at this point, I want to pose a question to all forumnites reading this -- we always refer to these sort of hilts as representations of rashaksas, but do any these sort of hilts represent other types of figures other than rashaksas?


* - sorry, I do not know the term for this part of the headdress, but you can see the pierced through part on both sides of the neck.

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_photo.php

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_photo.php

[nechesh]

Hi Kai Wee. Sorry to take so long to respond. I perhaps responded too absolutely on you web page. I am sure there are many who would agree with you that this hilt is a representation of a raksasa. I certainly have no arguement with you that it is indeed a disguised figure, i'm just not prepared to name all representational figurative hilts as raksasa. Certainly most of the major hilt forms are based on some abstraction of a figurative form. Does that mean that they are all intended to be raksasa? These floral motif figures have been around for some time on the northern costal region of Jawa (Pasisir) and Madura. My question is, why are they necessarily raksasa? I can clearly see the figure, but what you see as fangs could just as easily be facial hair or something else all together. The eyes are clear, but they certainly don't bulge in the demonic way of the standard form of raksasa. I also wonder how much of the floral motif is a response to Islamic law. I say this because i have also seen many of these floral hilts where the features aren't all that abstract leading me to the opinion that the floral motif is not necessarily meant to obscure the figure as much as embellish it in a locally decorative way. These hilts make me think of the European representations of the Green Man, making me wonder if they are not meant to be some kind of nature deity. Just a thought. To my mind these 'Floral Men" don't seem to project the same kind of menacing energy the that the more obvious raksasa do. They seem much more still, serene, at peace. That is, of course, only my subjective opinion.

[BluErf]

Originally Posted by nechesh

Does that mean that they are all intended to be raksasa? These floral motif figures have been around for some time on the northern costal region of Jawa (Pasisir) and Madura. My question is, why are they necessarily raksasa?

That's the question I have too, even for the 'literal' or 'realistic' forms.

But anyway, the rashaksa form has been around since the 16th century, according to K. Jensen's book. (See attached pic from the Dutch Museum. Sorry, can't find the Dutch Museum's URL in my bookmark page).

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_photo.php

The hilts covered in floral motifs, based on my observation, are no where as old. Most in the books were attributed to 18th or 19th century. And some of the rashaksa hilts we see floating around the market are really ancient looking, though I would admit that realistic rashaksa hilts are still being made today.

As for the floral motifs being embellishments, I thought it is no longer mere embellishment when it replaces vital features such as the eyes, nose, mouth, arms.

[BluErf]

In K. Jensen's book, there were also hilt forms representing Siva Bhairava at around the same period (16th - 17th century), with different poses. One hilt in the book referred to Ravana. There were also a couple of highly abstract hilts in the books which Jensen referred to as 'stylized raksasa'. They are different from my example, but tentalizingly similar in that they are all covered with vegetal motifs, and the head is quite alike.

I'll try to take pictures from the book and post some time this week.

[nechesh]

There are reports from Chinese contacts as early as th 14th and 15th century that speak of demon hilted daggers. Whether or not these were actually meant to be raksasa we will probably never know. I am not sure how far back the floral figure goes. As with all writings on keris i think we can only look to Kerner as a pointer, not the final word on the subject.

Originally Posted by BluErf

As for the floral motifs being embellishments, I thought it is no longer mere embellishment when it replaces vital features such as the eyes, nose, mouth, arms.

Yes, i would agree, it is no longer an embellisment at that point, it is a form.
What do you make of hilts where there is much floral embellishment, but the face, eyes, nose and all is clearly delineated. These hilts are obviously not trying to hide the fact that the hilt is a figure, but still uses great amounts of floral embellishment that is typical to that area.

[BluErf]

Yep, all books on kerises/krises provide pointers which we have to read with a pinch of salt sometimes. But the book I was referring to was written by Karsten Jensen, not Martin Kerner.

[nechesh]

Oops! Yeah, i've got Kerner on the mind because i am about to receive one of his books. But you are right, they ALL must be taken with a grain of salt.

[simatua]

Thanks for the invitation BlueErf ! (to join the kampungnet and place photo's from my collection.)
I managed myself into the site from kampungnet.
Got last weeknd a digital camara from my wife. I started already a try out of my collection on kampungnet.

Someone ??? Did a great job for me on the outside of the album !!!
I dont know who did it.? thanks a very very ....very lot !!!

This coming weekend i will take good pictures and place a lot more it on the site.
hoping everyone can enjoy and learning from eachother.

greets

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by simatua

Thanks for the invitation BlueErf ! (to join the kampungnet and place photo's from my collection.)
I managed myself into the site from kampungnet.
Got last weeknd a digital camara from my wife. I started already a try out of my collection on kampungnet.

Someone ??? Did a great job for me on the outside of the album !!!
I dont know who did it.? thanks a very very ....very lot !!!

This coming weekend i will take good pictures and place a lot more it on the site.
hoping everyone can enjoy and learning from each other.

greets

That's the spirit. Welcome aboard. Lovely Karno Tinanding keris...
At this point, I would like to invite everyone to create a personal keris gallery at kampungnet. May we learn and enjoy each other's pieces.

[John]

Simatua, I believe it was Alam Shah who did your cover at the KN gallery. He also did it for me when I started as well as assisted in arranging and captioning the initial pictures prior to me getting the hang of it. Good to see you breaking boundary of being the first Western collector there.

Would certainly like to see the pool expanding with more collector sharing even if you have one or two pieces...

[BluErf]

More pics pls!!!

[simatua]

pics are coming up this weekend.
I need good daylight for the photo's, artificial light does not show the blade very good, and a flash reflects 2much.

[BluErf]

As promised, pictures from K. Jensen's book Den Indonesiske kris.

1st 2 are hilts referred to in the book as 'Siva Bhairava'. The next 3 are referred to as 'stylized rakassas'

The Shiva hilt's posture (rajalila, I believe) is quite different from the realistic Rashaksa hilt's.

The stylized rashaksa hilts have a slightly more angular form compared to my example, but it supports the theory that my hilt could really be an abstract form of rashaksas.

The interesting thing however, is that the Shiva hilts were collected in the early 1600s while the stylized ones in 1690 (except the 3rd one, which was 1700s). In the book, there were many realistic rashaksa forms collected from the early 1600s (and dated to earlier periods because they were already old and worn when collected then) right up to the 1800s. This could mean that there was/and still is a period of co-existence between the realistic forms and the stylized forms.

Of course I would admit that I am relying on Mr K. Jensen's books and his pictures in postulating that my example is an abstract rashaksa.

Hidayat, a fellow member at Kampung net, shares that the realistic form is called 'Putro Satu' while the abstract form is called 'Putri Satu'. Putro means son while Putri means daughter. This could be a recent terminology like the 'wadon' term that has been given to the famous hilt that was commonly referred to as a form of Durga in another earlier (and very heatedly debated) thread. The thing is, the original terms for these hilts could have been 'lost'.

[nechesh]

Well, the repro is a little rough on some of these images, but they all appear to be beautiful hilts. I might have to get the Jensen book and brush up on my Dutch. It looks fairly obvious that that lovely Shiva hilt doesn't belong on that first keris, doesn't it?
Anyway, i think you might be right, that the original terminology for these hilts may well have been lost. To me the last of them looks like it could be a stylized raksasa, but i wouldn't bet the farm on the other two. The first of them (the abstract hilts) almost looks more like a hanuman to me. I would not be at all surprised if more than one type of figurative form was cloaked in this type of vegetal abstraction. Wish we had better images.

[VVV]

Hi Nechesh,

Dutch won't help you very much because Karsten's book is written in Danish.
In case you need something translated I maybe could be of help?
Unless it's not the complete book of course.

Michael

[nechesh]

Oh. Thanks Michael, i don't know any Dutch either.

[BluErf]

Originally Posted by nechesh

Well, the repro is a little rough on some of these images, but they all appear to be beautiful hilts. I might have to get the Jensen book and brush up on my Dutch. It looks fairly obvious that that lovely Shiva hilt doesn't belong on that first keris, doesn't it?
Anyway, i think you might be right, that the original terminology for these hilts may well have been lost. To me the last of them looks like it could be a stylized raksasa, but i wouldn't bet the farm on the other two. The first of them (the abstract hilts) almost looks more like a hanuman to me. I would not be at all surprised if more than one type of figurative form was cloaked in this type of vegetal abstraction. Wish we had better images.

That's what happens when you take a picture of an old picture printed in a book.

I'm not too sure about the lovely Shiva hilt not belonging to the 1st keris. The ivory could have shrunk/warped such that it can't sit down properly on the peksi anymore, and the mendak has probably gone missing, or it could even be the curator not wanting to push the hilt all the way down for fear of putting too much pressure to the hilt; I don't know. I just think that the blade is probably one of the most beautiful and strong-looking Javanese blades ever published. The hilt deserves the blade and vice versa.

How did you come to the conclusion that the 1st one is hanuman?

[nechesh]

Your right, that first one is a VERY nice blade. But aside fron the fit doesn't it appear a bit too small for this robust blade? Just a thought.
On the first abstract i just thought that the head looks very much like a monkey. Maybe it's just me.

[Mans]

Originally Posted by BluErf

..... that the realistic form is called 'Putro Satu' while the abstract form is called 'Putri Satu'. Putro means son while Putri means daughter. This could be a recent terminology like the 'wadon' term that has been given to the famous hilt that was commonly referred to as a form of Durga in another earlier (and very heatedly debated) thread.....

-------------------------
Putro Satu and Putri Satu;
'Putro' mean Son or guy.
'Putri' mean Lady, Girl or Daughter.
'Satu' mean One or First.
So, in Javanese and Maduranese term, Putro Satu mean Prince and Putri Satu mean Princess.

Oh ya, the 1st keris in my opinion nearer as an Old Balinese keris than Javanese. Its because bent of the Greneng and Ron Dho Nunut are dirrected to up.
The Old Balinese keris before Mataram Period resemble with Javanese (Pajajaran-Kediri-Singosari-Blambangan) keris although some ricikans still shown as the Balinese keris, specificaly on the form of Kembang Kacang, Lambe Gajah, Greneng, Ron Dho Nunut and Gonjo.

[nechesh]

I think Mans is probably right. In fact, i think both these Siva hilted keris are probably Balinese.

[nechesh]

Here is another Pasisir example posted on Adni site. Adni identifies it as Ganesha and if you look closely you can make out what could be an the elephant's trunk. Certainly all the variations on these vegetal motif hilts are not intended to be raksasa.
http://www.geocities.com/keris4u/han...ganesh_112.htm
This is why i wonder if at least the first two examples of Jensen's that Kai Wee posted (not counting the Sivas) are indeed meant to be a different demon or deity. That first one still looks like hanuman to me.

[Mans]

Originally Posted by nechesh

........ That first one still looks like hanuman to me.

Hanuman is White Monkey Warrior. He has a leader of Monkey warriors.
Did you look the face of 1st hilt resemble with Monkey

I think nearer as a little Raksaksha
Perhaps the maker has an imagination by him self

[nechesh]

i think the first ABSTRACT hilt has a head that very much resembles a monkey's, not the ivory hilt. The first two ivory hilts are strictly representational and are very likely Siva as Jensen states. Are we talking about the same hilt Mans?

[Mans]

I mean the 3rd hilt from Shiva hilt on the top. This hilt has a little smile on it face. If Hanuman, it must be has snout which more protrude than this one

[BluErf]

Originally Posted by Mans

-------------------------
The Old Balinese keris before Mataram Period resemble with Javanese (Pajajaran-Kediri-Singosari-Blambangan) keris although some ricikans still shown as the Balinese keris, specificaly on the form of Kembang Kacang, Lambe Gajah, Greneng, Ron Dho Nunut and Gonjo.

Hey, beautiful old Putri Satu hilt! I love the old stately look. Very nice and warm feeling.

I would have thought that old Balinese kerises descended from the early Javanese kerises, so it is only natural that they resemble each other. The kerises in the pictures above were collected in Pasisir Jawa, in the 1600s, and kept in Museums ever since. So it may be quite safe to say that these are indeed old Javanese kerises.