Need some help with this baby gun

danny1976 · 1st March 2012, 10:04 PM

Hi guys ,

I realy need some help here

This is not my thing ..
I did get this ''lady'' gun from somebody , my first thought was that is was a toy but now i.m sure it is not .
But what is it and where is it from / age etc... maybe someone can give me a little help ?

It has a foldable trigger and on the site a clip that folds away to load the chamber.

regards,

danny

Atlantia · 1st March 2012, 11:27 PM

It's a real gun. It's a pinfire revolver, I'd guess possibly 4.5mm calibre?
Often described as for ladies handbags!
LOL, Ladies of the night perhaps!

They are one of the most common, if not THE most common antique revolver that I see (in their various sizes including tiny single shot ones with 2mm cartridges). Although yours is in better condition than most. I'd guess it dates to the last 1/4-19thC.

P.S. You seem to be missing the ejector rod, but it wouldn't be too difficult to make a new one.

kahnjar1 · 2nd March 2012, 07:06 AM

Confirm that this is a pinfire revolver with the cal of (likely) 5mm. The clearing rod is missing, but easy to make a replacement. The Crowned "R" is a Belgian proof mark.
The pinfire system came into being around 1851 but had a very short life as the central(center) fire cartridge came into wide use very soon after. Pinfire was also used in sporting rifles and shotguns.
Regards Stu

Matchlock · 2nd March 2012, 10:39 AM

The correct name of the pin-firing system is Lefaucheux, a French invention.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_Lefaucheux

m

Fernando K · 2nd March 2012, 01:41 PM

Hola

Efectivamente, es una arma belga, o al menos, probada en Liege (Lieja). La R significa "RAYE". Además, en el cilindro, debe tener el punzon de las letras E, L, G, en un óvalo, y la marca del inspector (cualquier letra con un asterisco arriba).

Afectuosamente. Fernando K

Hello

Indeed, it is a Belgian weapon, or at least tested in Liege (Liege). R means "RAYE" (rifling). Furthermore, the cylinder must have the punch of the letters E, L, G, in an oval, and the inspector mark (any letter with an asterisk above).

Affectionately. Fernando K

SERGIU · 2nd March 2012, 02:14 PM

gun dealers still selled this small lefaucheux at the end of 19th century, and I saw in a newspaper from Budapest ,dated around 1890 , one particular AD presenting this very model , saying "small easy to use belgian velodog revolver, engraved, ivory grips etc very low price...etc" so it was selled as velodog not as lady-revolver.Now a typical velodog was different in shape, I know, like small bulldogs or iver johnsons or belgian types, but this little engraved pinfire was by far the cheapest(the year was 1890, last chance to sell pinfires...)they presented this folding-trigger revolver as "small and easy to reach in the vest pocket by a cyclist attacked by dogs."..

danny1976 · 2nd March 2012, 06:45 PM

Everybody thanks for their great input !

Now I something about this pistol.
Although it is not very special as I understand from your reply's its nice to display.

Do,s someone has a photo from the typical velodog ?

Does someone have a good tip for cleaning it ?
There is some light rust and dirt.

Regards,

Danny

Atlantia · 2nd March 2012, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danny1976

Everybody thanks for their great input !

Now I something about this pistol.
Although it is not very special as I understand from your reply's its nice to display.

Do,s someone has a photo from the typical velodog ?

Does someone have a good tip for cleaning it ?
There is some light rust and dirt.

Regards,

Danny

Hi Danny,

It's not unique for sure, but it's a very nice example of a type more often seen in terrible condition. Worthy of restoring and display!

An interesting note on the Pinfire system was that the protruding pin meant that misuse, dropping, banging or otherwise careless handling could mean an unexpected firing!
If you google 'pinfire revolver' you'll see an endless supply of images of this sort of pistol in various sizes and calibres. It was a very popular form.
If the calibre isn't obvious, then you can probobly guage it with the help of a .177 Airgun Pellet which is 4.5mm.

Pinfire amunition is interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinfire

kahnjar1 · 2nd March 2012, 09:00 PM

Hi Danny,
Thanks to Gene you now have some pics of how the clearing rod should look. A very easy way to make one of these is to get a LARGE flat head nail and refinish it from there. I have used this method many times in the past when I collected these sort of things, and it works really well with very little effort.
Regards Stu

Atlantia · 3rd March 2012, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi Danny,
Thanks to Gene you now have some pics of how the clearing rod should look. A very easy way to make one of these is to get a LARGE flat head nail and refinish it from there. I have used this method many times in the past when I collected these sort of things, and it works really well with very little effort.
Regards Stu

What an absolutely brilliant idea!

Multumesc · 3rd March 2012, 11:32 AM

Very nice gun.

danny1976 · 3rd March 2012, 11:38 AM

Thanks again for the tips / photo,s etc ...

I found a a website from a dutch collector it is also in English maybe you guys like it to see.

www.penvuur.nl

Danny

M ELEY · 3rd March 2012, 11:38 AM

I think these little guns are very cool. Although sold all over the world, I always associate them with the Old West and the so-called 'soiled doves' of the old saloons. Muff pistols, as they were sometimes called, would certainly maim or kill any cowboy playing too rough with the little lady.

1st March 2012, 10:04 PM	#1
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	Need some help with this baby gun Hi guys , I realy need some help here This is not my thing .. I did get this ''lady'' gun from somebody , my first thought was that is was a toy but now i.m sure it is not . But what is it and where is it from / age etc... maybe someone can give me a little help ? It has a foldable trigger and on the site a clip that folds away to load the chamber. regards, danny Attached Images

1st March 2012, 11:27 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	It's a real gun. It's a pinfire revolver, I'd guess possibly 4.5mm calibre? Often described as for ladies handbags! LOL, Ladies of the night perhaps! They are one of the most common, if not THE most common antique revolver that I see (in their various sizes including tiny single shot ones with 2mm cartridges). Although yours is in better condition than most. I'd guess it dates to the last 1/4-19thC. P.S. You seem to be missing the ejector rod, but it wouldn't be too difficult to make a new one. Last edited by Atlantia; 1st March 2012 at 11:40 PM.

2nd March 2012, 10:39 AM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	The correct name of the pin-firing system is Lefaucheux, a French invention. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_Lefaucheux m Last edited by Matchlock; 2nd March 2012 at 03:02 PM.

2nd March 2012, 01:41 PM	#5
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 669	Hola Efectivamente, es una arma belga, o al menos, probada en Liege (Lieja). La R significa "RAYE". Además, en el cilindro, debe tener el punzon de las letras E, L, G, en un óvalo, y la marca del inspector (cualquier letra con un asterisco arriba). Afectuosamente. Fernando K Hello Indeed, it is a Belgian weapon, or at least tested in Liege (Liege). R means "RAYE" (rifling). Furthermore, the cylinder must have the punch of the letters E, L, G, in an oval, and the inspector mark (any letter with an asterisk above). Affectionately. Fernando K Last edited by fernando; 2nd March 2012 at 07:26 PM.

2nd March 2012, 07:06 AM	#3
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,739	Confirm that this is a pinfire revolver with the cal of (likely) 5mm. The clearing rod is missing, but easy to make a replacement. The Crowned "R" is a Belgian proof mark. The pinfire system came into being around 1851 but had a very short life as the central(center) fire cartridge came into wide use very soon after. Pinfire was also used in sporting rifles and shotguns. Regards Stu

2nd March 2012, 02:14 PM	#6
SERGIU Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Timisoara, Romania Posts: 32	gun dealers still selled this small lefaucheux at the end of 19th century, and I saw in a newspaper from Budapest ,dated around 1890 , one particular AD presenting this very model , saying "small easy to use belgian velodog revolver, engraved, ivory grips etc very low price...etc" so it was selled as velodog not as lady-revolver.Now a typical velodog was different in shape, I know, like small bulldogs or iver johnsons or belgian types, but this little engraved pinfire was by far the cheapest(the year was 1890, last chance to sell pinfires...)they presented this folding-trigger revolver as "small and easy to reach in the vest pocket by a cyclist attacked by dogs."..

2nd March 2012, 06:45 PM	#7
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	Everybody thanks for their great input ! Now I something about this pistol. Although it is not very special as I understand from your reply's its nice to display. Do,s someone has a photo from the typical velodog ? Does someone have a good tip for cleaning it ? There is some light rust and dirt. Regards, Danny

2nd March 2012, 09:00 PM	#9
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,739	Hi Danny, Thanks to Gene you now have some pics of how the clearing rod should look. A very easy way to make one of these is to get a LARGE flat head nail and refinish it from there. I have used this method many times in the past when I collected these sort of things, and it works really well with very little effort. Regards Stu

3rd March 2012, 11:32 AM	#11
Multumesc Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Romania Posts: 203	Very nice gun.

3rd March 2012, 11:38 AM	#12
danny1976 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Holland Posts: 245	Thanks again for the tips / photo,s etc ... I found a a website from a dutch collector it is also in English maybe you guys like it to see. www.penvuur.nl Danny

3rd March 2012, 11:38 AM	#13
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	I think these little guns are very cool. Although sold all over the world, I always associate them with the Old West and the so-called 'soiled doves' of the old saloons. Muff pistols, as they were sometimes called, would certainly maim or kill any cowboy playing too rough with the little lady.