Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Keris Warung Kopi
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 27th February 2010, 03:14 AM   #1
BluErf
Member
 
BluErf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,180
Default An 8-year journey

I bought this Balinese keris blade about 8 years ago - just the blade nothing else. With great assistance from Alan, it is finally properly dressed. Thank you very much, Alan.
Attached Images
      

Last edited by BluErf; 27th February 2010 at 05:28 PM. Reason: Airbrush my leg out of a picture
BluErf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2010, 03:18 AM   #2
BluErf
Member
 
BluErf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,180
Default

2
Attached Images
  
BluErf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2010, 03:20 AM   #3
Gavin Nugent
Member
 
Gavin Nugent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,818
Default Stunning and subtle

A very stunning and at the same time subtle in appearance, congrats!

The hilt? What age is it?

Gav
Gavin Nugent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2010, 03:21 AM   #4
BluErf
Member
 
BluErf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,180
Default

3
Attached Images
  
BluErf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2010, 03:24 AM   #5
BluErf
Member
 
BluErf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,180
Default

4
Attached Images
   
BluErf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2010, 03:28 AM   #6
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,217
Default

Wonderful work and blade! Congrats!
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2010, 03:30 AM   #7
BluErf
Member
 
BluErf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,180
Default

Thanks!

Pardon my hairy leg in one of the pictures. Didn't notice it until now.

The hilt is vintage.
BluErf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2010, 03:32 AM   #8
BluErf
Member
 
BluErf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,180
Default

Just in case some fellow forumnite is wondering why the ganja is sticking out a bit - we had a discussion thread a short while ago that concluded Balinese blades are supposed to sit a little tall on the sheath. So here it is...
BluErf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2010, 10:30 AM   #9
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,761
Default

Hello Kai Wee,

a very nice blade and a beautiful recent sarung and good hilt, congratulation!
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2010, 02:31 PM   #10
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,113
Default

Indeed!
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2010, 04:08 PM   #11
Rick
Vikingsword Staff
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,290
Thumbs up

Wow !!
Very tasteful combination .
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2010, 07:58 PM   #12
Henk
Member
 
Henk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,209
Default

This is lovely and takes my breath away. A great addition to your collection. Congrats!!
Henk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2010, 08:33 PM   #13
asomotif
Member
 
asomotif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,224
Default

Quote:
concluded Balinese blades are supposed to sit a little tall on the sheath.
Hello Kai Wee

Very good decission.
This is a very tastefull keris.

Where did you have it stained / polished ? The blade looks very good !

As for the hilt.
Quote:
vintage
How old is vintage in this case ?

Best regards,
Willem
asomotif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th February 2010, 12:08 AM   #14
Naga Sasra
Member
 
Naga Sasra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA
Posts: 108
Thumbs up

It is indeed a beautiful piece; the blade is a good blade, and all of the dress outstanding, congratulations!
In my mind it was certainly worth the 8 year old journey, it is breathtaking.

Regarding your statement quote: Just in case some fellow forumnite is wondering why the ganja is sticking out a bit - we had a discussion thread a short while ago that concluded Balinese blades are supposed to sit a little tall on the sheath. So here it is... unquote.

I am a little concerned that someone out there will take the statement to heart and decide that unless the blade is sitting a little tall on the sheath it is not a correct Bali/Lombok piece. That would be rather unfortunate as the evidence clearly show that Bali/Lombok keris can be legitimately mounted in either way.

As a back up to my humble statement I will invite you to visit the Tropenmuseum’s Bali collection and the Bali collection at Volkenkunde in Leiden, here you will find most of the pieces in their collections flush with the sheath, that evidence is overwhelming. Add that to the Djelenga book Keris di Lombok where the result is the same, and I am afraid we cannot say that it is a foregone conclusion that Bali/Lombok blades are supposed to sit a little tall on the sheath.

That said I really like the look of your piece, and with that I wish that more of mine have that look as well. But I gather that was left in the creative hands the tukang wrongko who did the scabbard.

As I mentioned there is no wrong way both scenarios are legitimate.
Naga Sasra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th February 2010, 02:49 AM   #15
BluErf
Member
 
BluErf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,180
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by asomotif
Hello Kai Wee

Very good decission.
This is a very tastefull keris.

Where did you have it stained / polished ? The blade looks very good !

As for the hilt.
How old is vintage in this case ?

Best regards,
Willem
Hello Willem,

The blade was like this when I bought it. It probably was old polish/staining though the blade was much darker when I purchased it. There was a thick oily layer on the blade, which I was told could be some sort of thick gun oil. Over the years, I cleaned it once every few months with Singer oil, which is a mineral parafin oil, and that removed the black oil layer and exposed more and more of the pamor beneath. I now keep the blade wrapped up in plastic in the sheath.

I can't remember, but the hilt could be from the 70s. Resin core, silver sheet exterior.
BluErf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th February 2010, 02:49 AM   #16
BluErf
Member
 
BluErf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,180
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naga Sasra
It is indeed a beautiful piece; the blade is a good blade, and all of the dress outstanding, congratulations!
In my mind it was certainly worth the 8 year old journey, it is breathtaking.

Regarding your statement quote: Just in case some fellow forumnite is wondering why the ganja is sticking out a bit - we had a discussion thread a short while ago that concluded Balinese blades are supposed to sit a little tall on the sheath. So here it is... unquote.

I am a little concerned that someone out there will take the statement to heart and decide that unless the blade is sitting a little tall on the sheath it is not a correct Bali/Lombok piece. That would be rather unfortunate as the evidence clearly show that Bali/Lombok keris can be legitimately mounted in either way.

As a back up to my humble statement I will invite you to visit the Tropenmuseum’s Bali collection and the Bali collection at Volkenkunde in Leiden, here you will find most of the pieces in their collections flush with the sheath, that evidence is overwhelming. Add that to the Djelenga book Keris di Lombok where the result is the same, and I am afraid we cannot say that it is a foregone conclusion that Bali/Lombok blades are supposed to sit a little tall on the sheath.

That said I really like the look of your piece, and with that I wish that more of mine have that look as well. But I gather that was left in the creative hands the tukang wrongko who did the scabbard.

As I mentioned there is no wrong way both scenarios are legitimate.
You make a good point about the kerises that are in Amsterdam and Leiden. I haven't had the chance to go there and see for myself yet!
BluErf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th February 2010, 06:15 AM   #17
Marcokeris
Member
 
Marcokeris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Italy
Posts: 928
Default

nice work....but ring?
Marcokeris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th February 2010, 09:50 AM   #18
asomotif
Member
 
asomotif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,224
Default

Quote:
I haven't had the chance to go there and see for myself yet!
This link will save you a trip
Besides that I think that at best there will be a small handfull on display.
While their archive has many exemples and old pictures available.

http://collectie.tropenmuseum.nl/nBa...rt=ccrelevance

http://collectie.tropenmuseum.nl/nindex.asp?lang=en

Quote:
The blade was like this when I bought it. It probably was old polish/staining though the blade was much darker when I purchased it.
Wow! Lucky you.

Congrats on this very nice addition !
asomotif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th February 2010, 02:01 PM   #19
Naga Sasra
Member
 
Naga Sasra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA
Posts: 108
Thumbs up

This is the link to database at the Volkenkunde Museum in Leiden

http://www.rmv.nl/zoek_collectie.asp...for1=kris+bali

Not the best or accurate descriptions or photos but between the two museums most likely the most comprehensive collections of keris.
Naga Sasra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th February 2010, 02:19 PM   #20
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,113
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcokeris
nice work....but ring?
Marco, if you are questioning the fact that there is no uwer on this keris i must point out that you will find many old Bali Keris without them. For my own personal taste i also like having a uwer on my keris, but i do not think that it is a requirement for a complete keris, especially when the flow of the ensemble is well matched. Sometimes what we Westerners have grown a custom to does not actually reflect the ethnographic reality.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th February 2010, 03:23 PM   #21
Marcokeris
Member
 
Marcokeris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Italy
Posts: 928
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Marco, if you are questioning the fact that there is no uwer on this keris i must point out that you will find many old Bali Keris without them. For my own personal taste i also like having a uwer on my keris, but i do not think that it is a requirement for a complete keris, especially when the flow of the ensemble is well matched. Sometimes what we Westerners have grown a custom to does not actually reflect the ethnographic reality.
David i agree with you...but if "properly dressed" means "complete dressed" i see that there is not the ring under the hit. (Of course is better to see no rings that ...for example.. a Jawa/Sumatra ring in a Lombok/Balì keris... and this uncorrect combination is rather easy to see in Western sellers or in Western museum)
Marcokeris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th February 2010, 08:05 PM   #22
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,113
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcokeris
David i agree with you...but if "properly dressed" means "complete dressed" i see that there is not the ring under the hit. (Of course is better to see no rings that ...for example.. a Jawa/Sumatra ring in a Lombok/Balì keris... and this uncorrect combination is rather easy to see in Western sellers or in Western museum)
Marco, i am not yet convinced that a uwer must be present for a Balinese keris to be "properly dressed" or "completely dressed" so i do not think that you do agree with me. That is what i am saying.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th February 2010, 10:47 PM   #23
asomotif
Member
 
asomotif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,224
Default

Quote:
between the two museums most likely the most comprehensive collections of keris.
Auch !, this seems to be a thread whith some disagreements

1. The tropenmuseum has a rather extensive database.
2. the items are properly named and most of the dated.
3. the pictures give the possibility to zoom in on the object, which is failing at RMV.

Look at the 2 examples where I zoomed in on the pictures.


http://collectie.tropenmuseum.nl/nBa...=&culturenode=

http://collectie.tropenmuseum.nl/nBa...=&culturenode=
asomotif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st March 2010, 01:13 PM   #24
BluErf
Member
 
BluErf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,180
Default

Hmmm, one with uwer, one without. Both with ganja sticking out a bit... I did see a couple others with ganja sticking out slightly, but there were also 1 or 2 which seemed more or less flush with the sheath.
BluErf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st March 2010, 09:05 PM   #25
asomotif
Member
 
asomotif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,224
Default

Quote:
Hmmm, one with uwer, one without
I did a quick and rough check on the Tropenmuseum collection.
Most keris on pictures being worn by balinese people have an uwer.
A lot of keris in their collection don't have uwer's.

The Tropenmuseum website is able to zoom in on the pictures.
If you are mathematical / systematical, you can get some info from their collection.
asomotif is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.