Kaskara opinion

[Kipinga50]

Hello Everybody,
What do you think of this Mahdist Kaskara (42 ") , its rigid blade is engraved with Tuluth characteres, I wonder about the inscription of the guard. On one side is engraved:
Louis / X - T.unis (all united)
and on the other side:
Avallon - MLLCVV

"Tous Unit" is a templar formula known in France, Avallon is a name given to catholic heaven, and Louis X was a great king of France.
Can you give me your opinion. Thank you in advance

[Dom]

Hi
I've as a feeling that you will not like at all, what is following

- the Templar slogan was;
"Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed Nomini Tuo da gloriam"
Translation :
"Not to us, O Lord, not to us, but for the glory of your name"

nothing with T.unis

- Louis / X, should be in fact Louis IX (9th), why him ?

- Avalon, or Avallon ... heaven for Catholic ???
from where did you get this information
are you not confusing with Arthurian legend ??

- the kufic writting on the blade, doesn't give a single word in Arabic

- the sign "MLLCVV" in Roman date, is a non sense, means nothing coherent,
here the equivalence "1000+50+50+100+5+5"
if they want write 1255, should be MCCLV

Louis IX death was in Tunis in 1270
Louis X (1289/1316) be King only 2 years 1314/1316, and did nothing of special
but it's his father "Philippe le Bel" (1268/1314), King from 1285 to 1314 who destroyed the Template Order

In conclusion, a fantastic rigmarole
it seems a good tinkering to make sensational and lure the gullible

sorry for you, if I'm correct,
anyway not a single historical reference is matched

all the best

à +

Dom

[Edster]

Kipinga50/Dom,

Dom's analysis appears to discredit an ancient date, but I have a feeling that there is more to this sword than a cobbled modern fake. If we discount the Louie, Avalon, etc, the piece looks rather old. It could be an assemblage of earlier pieces. The cross guard appears to be cast bronze and of a shape earlier than the forged steel ones common of most kaskara. The rigid blade could be cast as was common in Mahdist or even Funj times. The blade also is tapered more than the forged kaskara blades we usually see. Neither has it been sharpened. Its strange that the Crescent Moon, often a maker's mark, was added after the etched text. Also, its has eyes, uncommon to me for the moon. The text seems too elaborate to be just made up.

The piece remains an enigma, but an interesting one.

Best regards,
Ed
Ed

[spiral]

Love the blade etching...

But perhaps later someone wanted it to be Excaliber?

Avalon is a legendary island featured in the Arthurian legend. It first appears in Geoffrey of Monmouth's 1136 pseudohistorical account" Historia Regum Britanniae" ("The History of the Kings of Britain") as the place where King Arthur's sword Excalibur (Caliburnus) was forged and later where Arthur was taken to recover from his wounds after the Battle of Camlann. Avalon was associated from an early date with mystical practices and people such as Morgan le Fay.

Spiral

[Iain]

These unsharpened kaskara have always seemed a bit of a mystery to me.

I'm unfamiliar with the idea of cast blades for kaskara. Could you elaborate a bit more on that?

I used to own a croc kaskara (image attached) that was also pretty dull without a proper edge.

However not all the thuluth covered blades are like this - here's a link to one a forum member was kind enough to allow me to display on my takouba website - http://takouba.org/takouba41/ - it features a Solingen blade.

[Edster]

Iain,

My only knowledge of cast kaskara blades is a comment from an informant at the sword makers market in Kassala in 1985. He said that during the Mahdiya most native made blades were cast and very brittle, often breaking in battle. Many warriors carried wooden swords and picked up weapons of the fallen. Such cast blades may have been regalia and not suited for battle. A lot of swords were picked up from defeated Anglo-Egyptian armies. Also, hand forged iron blades were made from locally refined iron ore. I'm unaware of the extent and time frames that steel metallurgy was practiced by local Sahel blade smiths. Surely not all battle blades were imported from the 16th-18th centuries or recirculated as battlefield pick-ups. How did the Funj army of Sennar source its swords? So many questions.

I notice on your linked Takouba that the half-moon was added after the etching. Perhaps the subject kaskara is a re-hilted takouba as suggested by the blade profile.

Take care,
Ed

[Jim McDougall]

As far as I have known, this kaskara would be among groupings of highly decorated with thuluth weapons which are definitely of the Mahdist period, most of them brought out of the Omdurman period. This is exactly the three channel form of blade termed Masri (Rodd, 1926) and shown in Briggs (1965) as a Hausa form blade. In Briggs the thuluth, crescent moons and channels are much the same.
The kaskara of this type I have is also the same, thuluth motif, and most notably the brass hilt. Discussions with David Edge many years ago (Ive had this sword about 30 years) suggested that the brass was likely oriented toward native superstitions concerning iron etc. Most thuluth on these swords seems to be rather linear motif 'based' on either Quranic verses or Islamic phrases as I have understood, and while not directly translatable, served temporally to non literate natives as powerfully imbued swords.

It would seem to me that the term 'cast' may have been semantically misused possibly in place of forged. Most of these native blades, as noted by Ed Hunley (1984) and Reed (1987) were using steel from old lorry springs or railroad materials in post Mahdist years. It is inclear exactly how many blades were native forged in the Mahdist years, but there were considerable numbers of European blades in circulation. This is especially notable as most swords were only afforded to those of stature tribally, while the majority of tribal weapons until the advent of the Mahdist movement were spears and simple forms, many even threw stones.As noted captured weapons, mostly rifles from Egyptian forces began to be used from earlier battles and attrition from those of fallen warriors certainly accounted for many. The Hadendoa and many of those tribes already had swords, but it is unclear exactly how the varying components of Mahdist forces were armed with swords specifically as far as I have known.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Edster

Iain,

My only knowledge of cast kaskara blades is a comment from an informant at the sword makers market in Kassala in 1985. He said that during the Mahdiya most native made blades were cast and very brittle, often breaking in battle. Many warriors carried wooden swords and picked up weapons of the fallen. Such cast blades may have been regalia and not suited for battle. A lot of swords were picked up from defeated Anglo-Egyptian armies. Also, hand forged iron blades were made from locally refined iron ore. I'm unaware of the extent and time frames that steel metallurgy was practiced by local Sahel blade smiths. Surely not all battle blades were imported from the 16th-18th centuries or recirculated as battlefield pick-ups. How did the Funj army of Sennar source its swords? So many questions.

I notice on your linked Takouba that the half-moon was added after the etching. Perhaps the subject kaskara is a re-hilted takouba as suggested by the blade profile.

Take care,
Ed

Hi Ed,

Thanks for the additional details. I am more familiar with the western Sahel as you know - where among the Hausa iron working has an extremely long history. In fact the major Hausa cities were founded in areas with large iron ore deposits (although this quality varied region to region). I would assume the same would be true for Sudan societies like Sennar. I've never heard of cast blades among other groups in the Sahel - the melting point on iron would be quite a bit higher I gather than on the typical metals which were cast; bronze, brass, etc. I will look through the few resources I have on Hausa metal working and see if I turn anything up.

I would imagine the source of swords for Sennar was much the same as it was in the 19th century - European imports and locally produced blades as well. The only illustration of a Sennar sword I'm aware of is a kaskara in a drawing of a king from 1821. Given the similarities with Mamluk swords - I see no reason not to think Sennar would have used much the same style of weaponry in earlier periods?

Lane, writing from Egypt in 1831 mentioned the import of German blades and that these went to Sennar.

More and more I am beginning to think there was no specific pattern for takouba - within kaskara generally speaking it doesn't seem there was heavily re-profiling of the blades. In takouba of course there generally was to get the narrow tip. In that sense I am of the opinion the blades shipped in where not to one pattern or the other but simply reshaped and adapted locally as desired.

Great eye spotting the later application of the half moon marks! This is pretty interesting I think as it a) means they were applied locally to a European blade and b) that it wasn't a first step, the thuluth was.

I am only aware of two examples of takouba with thuluth - the one I linked to and a regalia sword from one of the Hausa emirates.


Jim,

I have always been curious how Briggs arrived at his Hausa attribution. While kaskara are found in Kanuri (Bornu/Kanem) territory, I'm not aware of them really among the Hausa at all. Either in historical photos or modern times. So how Briggs came up with that has always been a puzzle to me.

This is merely a personal impression - but it has seemed to me there are far fewer native forged kaskara than takouba. Most kaskara seem to be either trade blades if older or the recycled steel sources you mentioned if later.

Whereas in takouba one encounters quite a lot of locally forged blades. I am more familiar with the organization of Hausa military forces - where arms were stockpiled and handed out by the ruler in war time. I guess meaning that you could find a soldier with a sword even if they didn't own it.

I am trying to find more sources on Sennar - interestingly swords and armour seem to crop up pretty regularly when Googling about the kingdom - although details are elusive as always...

All the best,

Iain

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All~ This is a very interesting thread from several viewpoints not least the application of the Dukari Moons after the blade was decorated ..(by the way Ed~ on the eyes in the moon theres a Takouba with eyes at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16288) thus likely to have been locally added. The other added decoration, almost in a rough graffitti style, is on the hilt and not comparable to the accurate blade decoration that I assume was done with acid?
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[regihis]

Since the beginning of the 17th century, Hausa has been written with a version of the Arabic script known as ajami. Most of the early writing in Hausa was Islamic poetry or on Islamic themes. If the verses are Hausa, Ajami or others languages?

[Jim McDougall]

Iain, Ive been rereading Briggs, and other notes concerning the strange attribution by him concerning 'Hausa' type hilts and swords, naturally written in the context of his landmark work on Tuareg swords and daggers. It seems he regards these swords which are clearly kaskara, as within the collective 'takouba' group and implies that Hausa and Mandingo used them.

It is interesting that while he mentions the Sudan, and Ahaggar trade with northern central areas there (p.37), he does not note these swords coming from there. The Mandingo attribution is even more curious as they are known for the guardless sabres which correspond in degree to the form of takouba with curved blade called aljuinar (as per Lee Jones research).

I have understood that the Hausa were blacksmiths, but they were also keen merchants, which accounts for thier language being the lingua francia of wide areas of the Sahara. In northern Nigerian regions as I understand, the Hausa and Fulani are regarded very much as the same tribal entity, with undoubtedly certain qualifications however. Since the Fulani were known users of the takouba, it seems odd that the obviously different sword type would be assumed to be Hausa.

The thuluth seems to me most likely to be with Mamluk origins, as they are most known for thier use of this type of Islamic script. Since they were situated in Sennar nominally after thier flight from Egypt and later decimated by incursions by Mohammed Ali, it seems thier influence on this decoration of blades might be likely there. The fact that many German and other blades entered there via Suakin would have provided good numbers of blades which may have been then decorated accordingly.
This was a trade center which certainly may have provided swords which would have entered westward caravans.

As mentioned, this kaskara with brass guard is remarkably similar to the one I have, and this seems to be of a typing that very well might even predate the Mahdist period with these swords of Sennar. Regarding these curious stamps with the name Louis and the Roman numerals, I would suggest that perhaps this sword may have been collected and entered the community in earlier years. In those times there was ever the proclivity of medieval associations with these swords, as described by Oakeshott , and 'industrious' persons tried to pass these off as medieval. These stamps on the guard may have been from a less than well informed 'artisan' trying to allude to these kinds of associations.

Regihis, most interesting entry on this Ajami script and the great example, thank you so much!!!

All the best,
Jim

[Iain]

Hi Jim,

It certainly is a puzzle why Briggs chose to the attribution he did for kaskara. The type really is not used among the Hausa at all, as evidenced by period photos, current parades and other traditional events as well as other written sources such as Bivar.

On the Fulani/Hausa subject - my understanding is that the integration occurred largely after the early 19th century Jihads and the foundation of the Sokoto caliphate. The Hausa were and are some of the most widely traveled and skilled merchants of the Sahel. Before the Fulani Jihad the Fulani tended to be pastoral while the Hausa controlled the major cities and formed the ruling and merchant classes.

Even in Bornu the takouba was in use as we can see from period photos of the Dikwa emirate. I have always been intrigued exactly where the overlap between the takouba and kaskara occurred and what resulted in those areas.

On the thuluth - Bivar, having examined the state sword at Daura seemed pretty certain this style was related to Mamluk script and the production of these items was centered in Nilotic Sudan.

I agree completely about the guard and its inscriptions on the kaskara that is the subject of this thread. The content of the inscriptions doesn't make much sense to me from a local perspective and I would guess it was added later.

On another note... The pommel of this kaskara seems a bit larger than most - would it be possible to see a better photo of it?

All the best,

Iain

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Iain!
In going through notes and references to regain perspective on the complexities associated with these North African broadswords I had forgotten Bivar, an absolutely key reference. His notes regarding the style of thuluth on some of the blades there and probable origins from Mamlukes to the east in Nilotic Sudan are key to the idea of Sennar for plausible provenance of these distinct examples of kaskara. There are of course many other arms which carry the thuluth such as yataghans, knives, axes, throwing knives and of course the well known haladie, the dual bladed knife. It is well established that this apparantly Rajput origined weapon which derived or developed along with the madu madu later became associated with Syria (Stone). Syria of course was along with Egypt, Mamluk ruled, and this was another location where thuluth was well known on materials.

It does seem that arms entering through the Suakin port into the Sennar entrepot would provide a distinctly plausible provenance for these thuluth covered arms.
The next big question would be concerning the triple fuller blades on these presumed 'Sennar' blades, which are distinctly like thier takouba counterparts to the west. Rodd calls these 'Masri' (=Egyptian) but regards them as from the north in Tuareg parlance. I have seen these type blades on Indian pata, with the cosmological symbols previously discussed (I have one well worn example) which suggests these blades likely came from trade sources and probably in the mid to late 18th century. This blade does not have the dukari, so the suggestion would be that these blades probably came out of Germany? early and entered Red Sea trade routes. This would likely include Oman via thier entrepots as well.

As these blades entered trade routes, later when the trade supplies diminished during intensification of colonial presence, it would seem that native smiths began to duplicate these blades. The examples of early blades of this form gradually became dramatically reprofiled through constant sharpening with rugged methods in the Sahara, and the rounded point corresponded to the swordsmanship style which focused on slashing. The thrust was clearly associated with far more advanced fencing techniques, where slashing and chopping are simpler in basic combat, especially when mounted.

I very much agree on the reflection on the apparant integration in degree of the Fulani and Hausa after the jihads in the early 19th c. and while the Fulani were pastoral, the merchant class Hausa received far more renown obviously because they became so widely represented and known. This was again the reason why the Hausa language became largely a lingua francia, as it was essential in trade, the true driving force in cultural diffusion. I have always though the Hausa were blacksmiths making these blades, but I am beginning to think it was them as traders marketing them. This may well have been the reason behind Briggs attribution, as well as to the Mandingo, who controlled trade routes in Mali around Timbuctoo. Because they were often seen with these type of swords, probably among others, he likely assumed they were also users of them.

Just more theory, but thought I would sound it out here, and as always very much appreciate thoughts and feedback.

All the best,
Jim

[Iain]

Hi Jim,

Sennar ceased to be an independent sultanate in 1821 and was absorbed into Ottoman Egypt, later Egyptian Sudan. However Sennar was overrun by the Mahdi and his forces during the uprising. What you are suggesting is certainly a fairly probable vector for the thuluth weapons seen during this period.

Bivar is particularly emphatic about the influence and flow of arms out of Egypt into the rest of Africa. Regarding the triple fuller blades - there is a note in "Exchange Economy of Pre-Colonial Tropical Africa" by Sundstrom of a Solingen blade made to the "Tuareg" pattern and that straight blades were also imported to Darfur. I have linked previously in this thread to a Solingen blade (WC Clauberg) of the triple fuller pattern. It seems reasonably clear to me these blades were not made to a Tuareg/takouba pattern or a kaskara pattern. But were a general trade item taken up not just in Africa, but as you note in other regions as well.

I personally wouldn't describe Tuareg swordsmanship as basic - travelers like Lyon seemed suitably impressed.

"Their swords are straight and of great length, and they wield them with much ease and dexterity."

The lack of thrusting I think is a function merely of the opponents they would usually face - lightly armored for the most part. There are intriguing notes about their martial capabilities in some obscure sources like this 1933 publication regarding Moroccan Jujutsu by Armand Brigaud.

"Touareg swordsmen have a trick of kicking at the outthrust leg of an"
enemy swordsman while parrying a slash or a stroke. The split seconds
needed by their antagonists to recover their balance enable them to bring home
lightning thrusts or overhand counter-slashes."

So it would appear it was quite a bit more than just hack and slash!

Regarding the Hausa and black smithing. It is important to note the role metalworking had in these societies and the classes that formed around that.THE IMAGE OF HAUSA SMITHS
IN SOME WRITTEN SOURCES by Stanistaw PIkASZEWICZ is a good starting point.

There were differences in the quality produced between areas - for example Barth notes that around Kano the ore was inferior to that around Sokoto - where a very large smithing community existed, the Makera Assada. Other examples of this quality gap can be seen between places like Maradi, which produced inferior iron swords and Damagaram(Zinder) which apparently produced much higher quality items, including cannon (see “A Hausa kingdom: Maradi under Dan Beskore, 1854-1875.” by M.G. Smith). Zinder was a particularly interesting town, being a former vassal state of the Bornu empire, ruled by a Kanuri elite, but with a largely Hausa population and a significant Tuareg presence. A real melting pot!

So in short, the Hausa both traded and produced arms. Although production seems to have varied region to region. The flow of blades from Kano into the Sudan (well noted as a trade item often picked up by the caravans) were quite probably a mix then of European imports and native made blades. However I suspect that fewer native blades would have made the trip as the quality differences compared with European blades may have made the resale and profits margins rather small when factoring in the portage involved.

All the best,

Iain

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you so much Iain! Your well supported responses to my comments are outstanding and truly place these thoughts in much better perspective.
We have really come a long way in better understanding these swords thanks to the tenacious research you have spent in comprehensively studying them.

All the best,
Jim

"kipanga'
I trust this information has been helpful despite the deviation from 'medieval 'allusion. As we have noted, often times there is a great deal of deception in the antique arms business, and as Oakeshott often complained, many good kaskaras ended up misrepresented as crusader or medieval swords in earlier years.

As knowledge and understanding of these weapons has gratefully advanced, it becomes more difficult to perpetuate these kinds of facades, and in many cases the weapon retains its intrinsic value despite creative additions.

[Iain]

Hi Jim,

My pleasure - thanks to digital copies of many old resources and narratives being available, searching through hundreds of pages for key words is a much easier task than it used to be!

I also hope this exchange is at least proving interesting for the 'lurkers'. Just to keep things going as this thread is a nice little repository for a lot of good info now - I will leave here a nice quote from Raphael's "Through Unknown Nigeria" regarding the sword makers in the Kano market. It is a nice window into the centuries old process of producing iron bladed swords.

"Although not made in the market, there you may
see knives and swords of diverse quality, always
encased in a leather sheath. The knives, which are
of the dagger type, are mostly worn for show. A
common way of carrying is at the elbow, the lower
part of wearer's arm passing through a broad ring
of leather. Swords nowadays are not regarded as
to be drawn for offensive or defensive purposes.
But every gentleman of quality wears one. And in
Hausaland a gentleman of quality may be a man of
poverty with his robe in rags. For ordinary walks
abroad the sword will be held by a length of lamp
wick or several strips of discoloured linen passing
over the shoulder. On State occasions — for pro-
cessions of the Emir — the sling will be wool, plaited
to thick tubular form, the ends finished by large
tassels. Green, yellow, red are the colours of
slings, some combining the three.

These swords are remarkable evidence of the
ability of the metal workers. The blades are occa-
sionally made from high quality steel previously
used in a similar capacity, but most have been iron
which bound packing-cases, and to this iron is
added odd bits of other iron — nails or whatever of
the kind comes to hand — the whole welded by hand
hammering.

It is astonishing to take some of these swords and,
placing the point in the ground, bend them to a
half-circle, so finely tempered has the metal been
brought by the simple process. The handles are
dulled and set with pieces of brass cut from used
cartridge-cases and fitted artistically. The leather
scabbards are also daintily picked out with small
corners of the same metal alternating with polished
tin."

This account is from 1914 I believe. So while scrap iron and brass cartridge cases may have formed the base materials (replacing locally smelted iron ore) the process remained the same. Hand hammered and forged blades with apparently quite good flex resulting. The use of tin and brass is well described - quite possibly referring to the pommel stacks.

All the best,

Iain

[Lew]

Dicussion is over on this piece.

Thanks