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#1 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5
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I recently came into possesion of 3 items that have been in my parents house since i can remember. they got them from my grandfather when he passed away (many, many years ago). the items consist of a helmet, a knife (if it can be called that) and a sword.
after some research online, i believe they are indo-persian items, possibly 17th/18th century, but i have no idea how accurate that is. I also believe that the sword is called a talwar. other than that, no ideas. they are in pretty good condition, at least i think so. and are just darn awesome looking. anyway, on to the pics...and i apologize for the quality. took them on my way out the door today and there wasn't the best light. The Helmet ![]() closeup of the helmet ![]() the knife ![]() hilt of the knife - has writing i dont comprehend ![]() the sword ![]() artwork towards the tip ![]() artwork towards the middle ![]() hilt of the sword ![]() thanks for any information that you guys can provide! -BSer |
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#2 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1
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Remarkable, if these are authentic, they look to be Hamash Malkar swords from the late 15th century. For the love of god, tell me you're not handling these beauties with your bare hands!
These look to be authentic weapons used by the Janissary Corps of Sultan Salim I. With any luck, Marcus already has the grail. |
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#3 | |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5
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time to do some reading on the things you mentioned. thanks! -BSer |
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#4 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,718
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Hi BSer,
When you get tired of reading, please give us a LOT of pictures, details too - please. This looks interesting. Jens |
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#5 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,725
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BSer, interesting photos, and interesting username.
If you're looking for tips on conservation and storage, try the search function, as this has been discussed before. As Jens notes, better photos will assist meaningful discussion of these items. Welcome to the forum. |
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#6 | |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,725
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What about these items makes you think they would date to the 15th cenrury, or have been used by Janissaries under Sultan Salim I? |
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#7 | |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5
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i will try to take some better/closer pics tonight when i get off work. hopefully i will be able to get some more up here tomorrow. Username is my high school nickname (based off my initials). ![]() -BSer |
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#8 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 452
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The helmet is from Iran , 18th c. or earlier, and the style and patination of the gold work look authentic,but the screws holding the nasal bar seem suspicious. I dont think such screws were used in that age. They should be rivets instead. Not?
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#9 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Clearwater, Florida
Posts: 371
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I know it's corny and I'll apologize in advance, but my instant reaction upon seeing the helmet was "Who knew that smiley faces have been around that long?"
Mike |
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#10 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Athens Greece
Posts: 479
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Photos are not good enough to judge quality but…
1. The iron mail under helmet is very little for real use. It could be worn out, but the triangles cuts are very symmetrical. 2. The small sword under helmet looks Indian. Tip looks blunt (to don’t hurt anyone). What the ring in blade is for? Hanging I suppose... ![]() 3. Tulwar is also Indian. Jens knows better, but why there is no artwork under the guard? The artist worked on a mounted blade. 4. I welcome the 2 new members in the forum. Bser who gave us an enigma and Argentd who gave us a solution ![]() |
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#11 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5
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I grabbed out my other digi-camera last night and took a few pics to test out how it would work (the ones with the darker lighting). then took about 70+ more pics today before work. they are much clearer and more in focus. i won't link every pic here, but you can find them all at http://www.digitallywarped.com/stuff/new/.
SS pics are the shorter sword. LS pics are the longer sword. if anyone wants more/different/closer pics, let me know and i will try to make it so. thanks for all the comments. hopefully these pics will help date the items or at least shed a bit more information. -BSer |
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#12 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,285
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I'm no expert , but my opinion is that these are decorative pieces from the Orientalist period .
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#13 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Poland, Krakow
Posts: 418
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I don't want to dissapoint you, but I must agree with Rick. It looks very 19th century to me - even late. I'm no expert, but the helmet and inlay on the blade of the sword are made very carelessly in my opinion. The naive display of animals somehow doesn't look like great job of masters working in earlier centurier. The sword with the hanging looks tourist piece to me - why, because we've got similiar Dao sword in museum with German mark on it
![]() Best regards! |
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#14 | |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5
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![]() -BSer |
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#15 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
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It is a custom here to support such statements with the data! Please explain,: 1.What (who?) is Hamash Malkar? 2. Why would Janissaries who were Ottoman (!) soldiers wear a typical Persian helmet and carry what appears to be a Nepalese sacrificial Ram Dao with a late Persian handle and an Indo-Persian hunting Shamshir Shikargar with koftgari-ed instead of incised hunting scenes? 3. Which Sultan Selim do you refer to? Selim I (the Grim) or Selim II (the Drunk)? Both reigned in the 16th century. I have a strong suspicion that the already voiced opinion of these items being 19th century Orientalist bazaar pieces is correct. |
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