New Member Intro and a picture(I hope)

knife7knut · 27th February 2005, 06:55 AM

Greetings to all:
I joined the forum a couple of weeks ago and have been checking it out slowly as there is a lot of material to digest.Enjoyable though.
My name is Ray and I'm a 61 year old semi-retired pinstriper/sign artist living in Southeast Michigan(USA).Have been fascinated with all manner of edged weapons and tools since the age of eight. Purchased my first knife at ten(which I still own but was MIA for 25 or so years)and haven't stopped yet.
My collection(accumulation) runs the gamut from miniature folding knives of the early 1900's to vintage English knives of the mid-1800's and encompasses probably every type of handle material known to man.
My other interests include collecting vintage wristwatches(kind of in limbo now)and working on a couple of vintage American station wagons(estate cars)and still decorating various types of vehicles including motorcycles,hot rods,and antiques(the last couple included a 1935 REO,a 1931 DeSoto roadster,and a 1928 Marmon V-16 roadster).This has been slowed a bit by the onset of some more health issues but I'm still trying.
I have a couple of pieces that I have owned for many years but have very little(let that read no)information on.I thought perhaps someone on the forum might be able to enlighten me.
The first is either a sword or a VERY long knife.I will try and post a detail pic or two but doubt I can include the full picture as the blade is fully two feet long.I will try to describe it as best as I can.
The blade is approximately 3/8ths of an inch thick at the base and tapers gradually to nothing at the point.The top and bottom of the blade run parallel to each other(approx.1 1/2" wide)until about an inch from the end when the bottom curves up quite sharply to meet the point.There is a fuller(groove)on either side right at the top that runs approximately 3/4ths of the way down the blade.The blade appears to be convex ground.
Where the crossguard would normally be the steel is formed into a rather complicated octagonal segment about an inch in diameter and is one piece with the blade. The fluting is decorated(as is the top of the blade and two crescent shaped pieces one on either side of the blade)with what appears to be a silver wire inlay.
The handle is horn(looks to be a piece near the tip)and nearly solid except for a small area on the end where I assume it attaches to the blade.The handle is not in very good shape(a crack on one side,some chipping,and some crude file marks on it).The blade is decent except for two spots about 6" from the end(it looks like someone tried to cut a bolt in half or something)and has a nice brown patina.
I've owned it for many years and except for an initial rubdown with oil I have made no attempt to clean it.I rarely clean any find that is showing advanced sign of degeneration except to stop the travel of rust.

The second item is a jambiya that was a gift to me about 25 years ago.It came wrapped in a brown paper bag that had deteriorated horribly(it spent many years prior in a laundry).What I found to be unusual about it(other than the carved ivory handle,damascus blade with gold inlay work,and the wooden sheath covered in some type of skin resembling lizard)was that it had a companion dagger with it also of damascus with a carved ivory handle.
The picture shows it with the sheath and companion piece on a tray I found at a yard sale last summer which is a unique piece in it's own right.It appears to be made of some incredibly tiny pieces of wood inlayed onto the main pieces. I can provide close up pictures if desired.
Sorry for the long rant and so many questions,but this forum has re-ignited my interest in these(and other)pieces I have neglected for so long.
I thank you for your patience and hope that I will be able to add something to the forum in the future.
Sincerely
Ray Smith aka knife7knut

Yannis · 27th February 2005, 11:02 AM

Wellcome Ray.

The sword looks like Sikin Panjang of North Sumatra.

The jambiya looks Persian 18th/19th century. It is very interesting. Personally I have not seen before a jambiya of this kind with combination with small knife. Some good close up photos will help.

There are some friends here, they can tell you more about these weapons.

Henk · 27th February 2005, 11:53 AM

Welcome to this forum Ray.

The sword is a sikin panjang from Aceh. A beauty with gold inlay. Is the scabbard pressent?

The Jambiya could be persian, but that is not my terrain.

Ferguson · 27th February 2005, 12:05 PM

Very nice sword of the Aceh people of Sumatra. I have one that is very similar. Mine is very nice mechanical damascus steel. Your's probably is too. Here are a couple of sites that I have found with more information. Welcome!
Steve Ferguson

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/taman.sari/s...kle07sikim.htm

http://www.oriental-arms.co.il/item.php?id=74

Conogre · 27th February 2005, 10:31 PM

Both (or should it be all three?) are beautiful pieces, with the Sikkin sword one of my all time favorites as far as the "feel" in the hand, while the Jambiya (Jordanian area?) with it's side knife is the 2nd or 3rd I've seen and very nice.
Welcome, and for my money, that's a nice way to toss your hat into the ring.
By the way, I'm an ex-Flintite prior to the death of GM.
Mike

knife7knut · 28th February 2005, 12:47 AM

Thank you so much for the warm welcome;it is greatly appreciated.Sorry not to have replied sooner but some health issues have kept me in bed for most of the day.Long and involved but it relates to some prior surgery and an ongoing bout with vertigo due to a persistent inner ear problem.
I do so appreciate the information on the sword as I had no clue as to it's origins. Unfortunately the sheath did not come with it.The sword was a gift from a friend who collected military pieces and nothing else.He would buy collections for the military stuff,give me first pick of everything else,and then sell whatever I didn't want.Worked very well as I had no interest in military items.
I was amazed at the resemblance to mine and the ones in the referenced sites.Was there some sort of standard that the makers of these pieces adhered to? It would seem to be as the similarities are remarkable.
I had someone look at the jambiya long ago and he was of the opinion that it possibly originated in Jordan or Syria.He provided me with a rough translation of the lettering etched onto the blade but could not translate the cyphers on the grip as they were very worn.The figures on the grip likewise are devoid of facial features although he opined that they might have been there originally. He seemed to be more interested in purchasing it than telling me about it.I had told him up front that it was not for sale as it was a gift from a friend and I'm not in the habit of profiting from a friend's generosity.
My friend has long since passed away but the feeling is still the same.
I hesitate to post many more pictures so as not to take up any more band width than necessary.Is there a particular part of either piece that warrants closer scrutiny?
As regards to pictures:How does one create those long and beautifully close up pictures seen so often in the forum? The only time I've seen similar ones were that were done with a motorized camera mount panning slowly the length and these were inhibited by the fact that they swung in an arc so some distortion was evident at the extreme ends.Of course that was 40 something years ago;I'm to assume that technology has progressed a bit since.
Well all this typing(the two finger hunt and peck variety)is having an effect on my concentration so I will sign off for now.Thanks again to those who responded and I look forward to conversing with you in the future.
I also have several African daggers(some with pointed pommels)that I will post at a later date.
Cheers
Ray aka knife7knut

Yannis · 28th February 2005, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knife7knut

As regards to pictures:How does one create those long and beautifully close up pictures seen so often in the forum?

Ray
In a lot of modern cameras there is a function called “macro”. This is necessary to make close up photos. Some cameras have also a “super macro” that you can use like microscope!

Raja Muda · 28th February 2005, 11:42 AM

I guess I'd let the others contribute their knowledge on the weapons. I'd just like to put in my two cents worth on the tray. It seems what you have here is a piece of marquetry work probably done in Spain in what I would call the Alhambra style. Sometime in recent Spanish history, there was a surge of interest in the Arab-Islamic heritage of Iberia and many craftsmen started producing handicrafts inspired by the Mezquita, the Alhambra, Moorish tiles, arabesque and the like.
The cartouche on the tray carries the motto of the Nasrid kings, 'wa la ghalib illallah' which means There is no Victor but God, though I guess the letters have been distorted somewhat. The same motto appears all over the Alhambra complex. Interesting how it got to where you found it.

knife7knut · 28th February 2005, 11:36 PM

First I would start by thanking both of you for the replies to my queries.
Yannis,as to the macro feature on modern day cameras,my newest film camera was a 35mm Canon AL-1;chosen because of it's,"3-light idiot-proof focusing system" where instead of a split-image focusing which my eyes find near-impossible to adapt to,uses a red arrow going left and right to indicate which way to turn the lens and a green dot when your object is in focus.Doesn't work well if you suffer from red-green color blindness though.And it's more than 25 years old now.
The lens is a 35-105mm Macro-Zoom which will focus down to approximately 2 1/2"(62mm)and is great for closeups but your,"depth-of-field" is nearly non-existant.My digital camera;a Sony FD Mavica will focus pretty closely but the field of view is severely limited and depth of field suffers when you're trying to keep the file size within reason.
Raja Muda;as to the tray which I purchased for less than $10 was to me a fantastic work of art in it's own right.The closer you examine it,the more detail becomes evident.Strangely enough the gentleman who owned it prior to it showing up at the yard sale is a friend of mine.He is of Iraqi descent and his (ex) wife purchased it at an antique shop about 20 years ago.He gave me a general idea of what it said but knew nothing of it's history other than to opine that it was possibly of Syrian manufacture.
Being an artist,I can appreciate the time and effort that went into it and thought it would make a delightful backdrop for the jambiya.
For those who had asked for closeups of the jambiya,I will post a couple where the cyphers are most present in the hope someone may be able to translate the ones around the handle area and the blade.
Again thank you for all your input and perhaps some day there will be questions that I am able to respond to.
Sincerely
Ray Smith aka knife7knut

Raja Muda · 3rd March 2005, 03:01 AM

Hi Ray,
If you could kindly turn the blade around, I can attempt a reading of the koftgari inscription. Can't really manage it with all that blood rushing into my head, should I decide to stand on my head.

knife7knut · 3rd March 2005, 04:42 AM

Raja Muda:
I truly apologize to you;I had no idea the pictures were inverted.I must confess I have enough of a problem interpreting English at times;I can't imagine trying with another language!
I have the utmost respect for anyone who is multi-lingual.I worked many years ago with a gentleman of Lebanese extraction who spoke eight languages fluently.I have trouble NAMING eight languages!
Here are the corrected pictures for your viewing.Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely
Ray Smith aka knife7knut

27th February 2005, 06:55 AM	#1
knife7knut Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 31	New Member Intro and a picture(I hope) Greetings to all: I joined the forum a couple of weeks ago and have been checking it out slowly as there is a lot of material to digest.Enjoyable though. My name is Ray and I'm a 61 year old semi-retired pinstriper/sign artist living in Southeast Michigan(USA).Have been fascinated with all manner of edged weapons and tools since the age of eight. Purchased my first knife at ten(which I still own but was MIA for 25 or so years)and haven't stopped yet. My collection(accumulation) runs the gamut from miniature folding knives of the early 1900's to vintage English knives of the mid-1800's and encompasses probably every type of handle material known to man. My other interests include collecting vintage wristwatches(kind of in limbo now)and working on a couple of vintage American station wagons(estate cars)and still decorating various types of vehicles including motorcycles,hot rods,and antiques(the last couple included a 1935 REO,a 1931 DeSoto roadster,and a 1928 Marmon V-16 roadster).This has been slowed a bit by the onset of some more health issues but I'm still trying. I have a couple of pieces that I have owned for many years but have very little(let that read no)information on.I thought perhaps someone on the forum might be able to enlighten me. The first is either a sword or a VERY long knife.I will try and post a detail pic or two but doubt I can include the full picture as the blade is fully two feet long.I will try to describe it as best as I can. The blade is approximately 3/8ths of an inch thick at the base and tapers gradually to nothing at the point.The top and bottom of the blade run parallel to each other(approx.1 1/2" wide)until about an inch from the end when the bottom curves up quite sharply to meet the point.There is a fuller(groove)on either side right at the top that runs approximately 3/4ths of the way down the blade.The blade appears to be convex ground. Where the crossguard would normally be the steel is formed into a rather complicated octagonal segment about an inch in diameter and is one piece with the blade. The fluting is decorated(as is the top of the blade and two crescent shaped pieces one on either side of the blade)with what appears to be a silver wire inlay. The handle is horn(looks to be a piece near the tip)and nearly solid except for a small area on the end where I assume it attaches to the blade.The handle is not in very good shape(a crack on one side,some chipping,and some crude file marks on it).The blade is decent except for two spots about 6" from the end(it looks like someone tried to cut a bolt in half or something)and has a nice brown patina. I've owned it for many years and except for an initial rubdown with oil I have made no attempt to clean it.I rarely clean any find that is showing advanced sign of degeneration except to stop the travel of rust. The second item is a jambiya that was a gift to me about 25 years ago.It came wrapped in a brown paper bag that had deteriorated horribly(it spent many years prior in a laundry).What I found to be unusual about it(other than the carved ivory handle,damascus blade with gold inlay work,and the wooden sheath covered in some type of skin resembling lizard)was that it had a companion dagger with it also of damascus with a carved ivory handle. The picture shows it with the sheath and companion piece on a tray I found at a yard sale last summer which is a unique piece in it's own right.It appears to be made of some incredibly tiny pieces of wood inlayed onto the main pieces. I can provide close up pictures if desired. Sorry for the long rant and so many questions,but this forum has re-ignited my interest in these(and other)pieces I have neglected for so long. I thank you for your patience and hope that I will be able to add something to the forum in the future. Sincerely Ray Smith aka knife7knut Attached Images

28th February 2005, 12:47 AM	#6
knife7knut Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 31	Reply Thank you so much for the warm welcome;it is greatly appreciated.Sorry not to have replied sooner but some health issues have kept me in bed for most of the day.Long and involved but it relates to some prior surgery and an ongoing bout with vertigo due to a persistent inner ear problem. I do so appreciate the information on the sword as I had no clue as to it's origins. Unfortunately the sheath did not come with it.The sword was a gift from a friend who collected military pieces and nothing else.He would buy collections for the military stuff,give me first pick of everything else,and then sell whatever I didn't want.Worked very well as I had no interest in military items. I was amazed at the resemblance to mine and the ones in the referenced sites.Was there some sort of standard that the makers of these pieces adhered to? It would seem to be as the similarities are remarkable. I had someone look at the jambiya long ago and he was of the opinion that it possibly originated in Jordan or Syria.He provided me with a rough translation of the lettering etched onto the blade but could not translate the cyphers on the grip as they were very worn.The figures on the grip likewise are devoid of facial features although he opined that they might have been there originally. He seemed to be more interested in purchasing it than telling me about it.I had told him up front that it was not for sale as it was a gift from a friend and I'm not in the habit of profiting from a friend's generosity. My friend has long since passed away but the feeling is still the same. I hesitate to post many more pictures so as not to take up any more band width than necessary.Is there a particular part of either piece that warrants closer scrutiny? As regards to pictures:How does one create those long and beautifully close up pictures seen so often in the forum? The only time I've seen similar ones were that were done with a motorized camera mount panning slowly the length and these were inhibited by the fact that they swung in an arc so some distortion was evident at the extreme ends.Of course that was 40 something years ago;I'm to assume that technology has progressed a bit since. Well all this typing(the two finger hunt and peck variety)is having an effect on my concentration so I will sign off for now.Thanks again to those who responded and I look forward to conversing with you in the future. I also have several African daggers(some with pointed pommels)that I will post at a later date. Cheers Ray aka knife7knut

28th February 2005, 11:42 AM	#8
Raja Muda Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 100	Tray I guess I'd let the others contribute their knowledge on the weapons. I'd just like to put in my two cents worth on the tray. It seems what you have here is a piece of marquetry work probably done in Spain in what I would call the Alhambra style. Sometime in recent Spanish history, there was a surge of interest in the Arab-Islamic heritage of Iberia and many craftsmen started producing handicrafts inspired by the Mezquita, the Alhambra, Moorish tiles, arabesque and the like. The cartouche on the tray carries the motto of the Nasrid kings, 'wa la ghalib illallah' which means There is no Victor but God, though I guess the letters have been distorted somewhat. The same motto appears all over the Alhambra complex. Interesting how it got to where you found it.

28th February 2005, 11:36 PM	#9
knife7knut Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 31	Reply First I would start by thanking both of you for the replies to my queries. Yannis,as to the macro feature on modern day cameras,my newest film camera was a 35mm Canon AL-1;chosen because of it's,"3-light idiot-proof focusing system" where instead of a split-image focusing which my eyes find near-impossible to adapt to,uses a red arrow going left and right to indicate which way to turn the lens and a green dot when your object is in focus.Doesn't work well if you suffer from red-green color blindness though.And it's more than 25 years old now. The lens is a 35-105mm Macro-Zoom which will focus down to approximately 2 1/2"(62mm)and is great for closeups but your,"depth-of-field" is nearly non-existant.My digital camera;a Sony FD Mavica will focus pretty closely but the field of view is severely limited and depth of field suffers when you're trying to keep the file size within reason. Raja Muda;as to the tray which I purchased for less than $10 was to me a fantastic work of art in it's own right.The closer you examine it,the more detail becomes evident.Strangely enough the gentleman who owned it prior to it showing up at the yard sale is a friend of mine.He is of Iraqi descent and his (ex) wife purchased it at an antique shop about 20 years ago.He gave me a general idea of what it said but knew nothing of it's history other than to opine that it was possibly of Syrian manufacture. Being an artist,I can appreciate the time and effort that went into it and thought it would make a delightful backdrop for the jambiya. For those who had asked for closeups of the jambiya,I will post a couple where the cyphers are most present in the hope someone may be able to translate the ones around the handle area and the blade. Again thank you for all your input and perhaps some day there will be questions that I am able to respond to. Sincerely Ray Smith aka knife7knut Attached Images

3rd March 2005, 03:01 AM	#10
Raja Muda Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 100	Upside down Hi Ray, If you could kindly turn the blade around, I can attempt a reading of the koftgari inscription. Can't really manage it with all that blood rushing into my head, should I decide to stand on my head.

27th February 2005, 11:02 AM	#2
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	Wellcome Ray. The sword looks like Sikin Panjang of North Sumatra. The jambiya looks Persian 18th/19th century. It is very interesting. Personally I have not seen before a jambiya of this kind with combination with small knife. Some good close up photos will help. There are some friends here, they can tell you more about these weapons.

27th February 2005, 11:53 AM	#3
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Welcome to this forum Ray. The sword is a sikin panjang from Aceh. A beauty with gold inlay. Is the scabbard pressent? The Jambiya could be persian, but that is not my terrain.

27th February 2005, 12:05 PM	#4
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Very nice sword of the Aceh people of Sumatra. I have one that is very similar. Mine is very nice mechanical damascus steel. Your's probably is too. Here are a couple of sites that I have found with more information. Welcome! Steve Ferguson http://perso.wanadoo.fr/taman.sari/s...kle07sikim.htm http://www.oriental-arms.co.il/item.php?id=74

27th February 2005, 10:31 PM	#5
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Both (or should it be all three?) are beautiful pieces, with the Sikkin sword one of my all time favorites as far as the "feel" in the hand, while the Jambiya (Jordanian area?) with it's side knife is the 2nd or 3rd I've seen and very nice. Welcome, and for my money, that's a nice way to toss your hat into the ring. By the way, I'm an ex-Flintite prior to the death of GM. Mike

3rd March 2005, 04:42 AM	#11
knife7knut Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 31	My apologies Raja Muda: I truly apologize to you;I had no idea the pictures were inverted.I must confess I have enough of a problem interpreting English at times;I can't imagine trying with another language! I have the utmost respect for anyone who is multi-lingual.I worked many years ago with a gentleman of Lebanese extraction who spoke eight languages fluently.I have trouble NAMING eight languages! Here are the corrected pictures for your viewing.Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Sincerely Ray Smith aka knife7knut Attached Images