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#1 |
Lead Moderator European Armoury
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
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This time not a noise maker but potentialy a handcannon barrel.
Although the auctioner has put it up as an XVIII century 'mascolo d'allegrezza' i have had a firm opinion that this is a XIV century gothic handgonne barrel. When i received it and held in my hand i realized that such slim and slightly octogonal barrel would not make the purpose of a signal bombard, with its 13,5 cms length and only 38 m/m width at mid section. The bore measures at muzzle 25 m/m (some 20 m/m at chamber). . |
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#2 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
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Hi Nando,
I do hope to be able and tell with sufficient authority on the subject ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() It compares quite exactly to the sample in my collection - see my thread, post #2: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=handgonne which is obviously made of band iron folded around a hardened core. Please also see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=handgonne http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=berne With their overall shapes, of round section throughout and with notable swamping at the rear as well as at the forward end, plus the fact that their touch holes are very close to the rear end, they represent the last stylistic extension of the Romanesque period, being very close in style to the famous Loshult gun (ca. 1330-50), and doubtlessly ranging among the earliest wrought iron barrels ever made. If you look at it closely, holding it against broad daylight, you should be able to identify the characteristic structure of the wound band iron, which is clearly visible on my specimen. And, once more in terms of style, it is significantly earlier than the earliest barrels adopting the new Gothic style and reflecting it by their multi-sided shapes: hexagonal and octagonal, both probably entering the war scene as late as ca. 1400, as some barrels in both your collection and mine denote http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...nd+cannon+1400 and as the earliest known existing and datable portable 'long arm'/'gun', which luckily is in my collection, proves because it exactly corresponds to an illustration dated 1411 (Cod.Vind. 3069, fol. 38v) - see: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...andgun+1400-10 Please also search the surface in front of the touch hole carefully for a tiny arrowhead mark, as it is struck on my barrel! The measurements of my counterpart are: overall length 13.8 cm, outer diameter at both the rear and forward end 4.5 cm, 'bore' ca. 25 mm; thus our barrels are nearly identical and doubtlessly were part of a series made by the same workshop! Highly remarkable is the narrowing rear breech section you mentioned, as it is another early criterion typical of guns meant to fire limestone balls (German: Steinbüchsen), before balls were cast of lead or, in the case of the smith Peter Pögl in the 1490's, were of wrought iron, made by order of King Maximilian. I should closely examine my sample as well. Best wishes and congrats, Michl Last edited by Matchlock; 17th April 2014 at 02:34 PM. |
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#3 |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,590
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Bem feito meu amigo.
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#4 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
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Hi Norman,
Though your Portuguese is way better than mine my command of Latin enables me to perfectly understand what you were saying, and of course I fully consent. After all, I was not totally 'innocent' regarding Nando's purchase ... Anyway, Nando is the winner of an important and early barrel that, to most people, sadly is nothing but 'another little noisemaker'. Among those ranked the auction house: their catalog illustration depicted that barrel standing in an upright position, thus proving that to them it merely was a saluting gun of uncertain date. A small group of connoisseurs knows better though ... Best, Michael |
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#5 | |
Lead Moderator European Armoury
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
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![]() Just as i thought to declare with all my transparency that, the bem feito (well done) was not my credit, Michael comes up on stage and unveals the mistery ![]() It was he who actualy pointed my radar to this example and made me see this is the real thing. Still now i am digesting this piece; if he didn't open my (our) eyes for the band iron structure of this barrel i would think those seams are forging irregularities ![]() Still i don't discertn the arrowhead mark; but then, i don't have Michl's master's eyes ![]() And by the way, Norman; your Scotish is improving. Wonder why Michl realizes it is portuguese ![]() |
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#6 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,590
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Hi Michael, It is nice to know that Fernando has a 'guardian angel' to back him up as there may be a certain Lady who thinks that he has just bought another length of rusty pipe. ![]() ![]() ![]() Kind Regards, Norman. P.S. I have to confess my Portuguese is from an online translator and as far as Latin goes I was asked politely at school to choose another subject as after two years my teacher had become as frustrated as me at my inability to grasp, as far as I was concerned, the inexplicable conjugation of Latin verbs ![]() ![]() ![]() Last edited by Norman McCormick; 18th April 2014 at 09:23 PM. |
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#7 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,590
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I'm afraid this little phrase gave the game away ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Kind Regards, Norman. |
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#8 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NC, U.S.A.
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Spectacular find, regardless of who pointed you that way, my friend! Such an incredible piece and (I'm assuming here) sold for the price of a common signalling piece! Well done for all involved, as everyone likes a savings!
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#9 | |
Lead Moderator European Armoury
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Location: Portugal
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My language is latin based, but i have never dreamed of knowing that much Latin. Congrats ![]() ![]() |
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#10 | ||
Lead Moderator European Armoury
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Location: Portugal
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#11 | |
Lead Moderator European Armoury
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
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#12 |
Lead Moderator European Armoury
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Location: Portugal
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Giving wings to imagination ... or in other words, a conjugation of several cannon bed types seen around with a barrel that potentialy had a rather different stock
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#13 |
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Romania
Posts: 202
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Beautiful gun.
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#14 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Berlin
Posts: 48
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Great find!
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