Wootz Jambiya Albanian?

RobertGuy · 7th August 2018, 03:30 PM

Another recent auction buy.
Catalogue Description:
9 ¾ inch slightly curved, double edged Damascus blade with central rib. Carved one piece horn grip with silvered filigree and stone set rivet heads. Contained in its silvered covered scabbard with floral engraving. Wire bound chape and throat.

My Stats:
Weight 1lb 1oz (0.49kg) in scabbard, 9.9oz (0.28kg) bare blade
Length overall: 15.5'' (39.5cm) Blade: 9.75'' (25cm)
Profile taper: 1.94'' (49.3mm) at ricasso , 1.31'' (33.2mm)at mid blade, 0.85'' (20.4mm) 2'' from tip.
Distal taper 0.18'' (4.5mm) at ricasso, 0.21'' (5.5mm)at mid blade,. 0.17'' (4.4mm) 2'' from tip.

No etchings or stamps but the blade seems to be wootz and there is a strange triangular demarcation area on both sides near the hilt. Is this the sign of a possible welded tang? People with more knowledge of metallurgy may be able to help me here. The scabbard appears to be silver with what could be a makers signature. Any translations welcome.
Is the Albanian attribution accurate? Any ideas as to the possible date. Feels to be a well constructed piece and the blade is very nicely patinated. I applied a light etch of dilute ferric chloride to bring out the pattern. As always all comments and opinions welcome.

Rick · 7th August 2018, 03:36 PM

The handle looks very much like rhinoceros horn.

mahratt · 7th August 2018, 03:49 PM

I think it's a Kurdish dagger. A hilt is a buffalo horn, but not a rhinoceros. A good dagger.

Battara · 8th August 2018, 01:33 AM

Like Mahratt I lean towards Kurdish.

Helleri · 8th August 2018, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

The handle looks very much like rhinoceros horn.

I would definitely agree that it appears to be more like horn or antler than bone.

ariel · 8th August 2018, 01:29 PM

It is Kurdish with Ottoman influence ( see terminal of the scabbard) and it is horn. Whether it is rhino or buffalo is difficult to be certain because of a worn-out surface and a single pic. Any pics of the top of its pommel and of smooth surface?

RobertGuy · 16th August 2018, 10:35 AM

Thanks for all the help. Sorry for slow reply. I have done some more pictures, not sure if they add anything. Rhino horn would be interesting, if a little bit disconcerting.

mahratt · 16th August 2018, 10:42 AM

Unfortunately, the hilt is not made from a horn of a rhinoceros ... This, as I said, is the horn of a buffalo.

Pay attention to the elements that I highlighted in red. You can see the curvature of the structure of the horn and the cracks. The structure of the rhinoceros horn fibers (keratin) is always straight. See the two last photos.

motan · 16th August 2018, 12:35 PM

Hi, I agree with Ariel. Definitely Kurdish, not Albanian. The shape of the scabbard and particularly the point are Ottoman, but not necessarily Turkish - it was common in parts of the Ottoman Empire during that time, and your dagger is definitely of Ottoman age.
This shape of hilt and also the filigree ornaments are uncommon, but I have seen both on Kurdish daggers before. If I had to guess, I would say Northern Iraq.
The writing says A'mal Naser - the work of Naser, but I am not very good in reading Arabic, as shown very recently , so you should ask around.
Very nice dagger

shayde78 · 17th August 2018, 12:50 AM

Not to hijack the thread, but the picture of the hilt (I reposted below) brought a question to mind - has anyone ever thought this hilt form might be related to some of the European ballock dagger hilts? The region (Asia Minor/Mediterranean) has a long history of phallic-shaped fertility amulets. I would think the Islamic tradition of avoiding direct representation in favor of the more abstract would lend itself well to shaping a knife's hilt in this way.

Of course...it could just be that Freud would have a field day with me on his couch, and that a cigar is sometimes just a cigar.

7th August 2018, 03:30 PM	#1
RobertGuy Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 135	Wootz Jambiya Albanian? Another recent auction buy. Catalogue Description: 9 ¾ inch slightly curved, double edged Damascus blade with central rib. Carved one piece horn grip with silvered filigree and stone set rivet heads. Contained in its silvered covered scabbard with floral engraving. Wire bound chape and throat. My Stats: Weight 1lb 1oz (0.49kg) in scabbard, 9.9oz (0.28kg) bare blade Length overall: 15.5'' (39.5cm) Blade: 9.75'' (25cm) Profile taper: 1.94'' (49.3mm) at ricasso , 1.31'' (33.2mm)at mid blade, 0.85'' (20.4mm) 2'' from tip. Distal taper 0.18'' (4.5mm) at ricasso, 0.21'' (5.5mm)at mid blade,. 0.17'' (4.4mm) 2'' from tip. No etchings or stamps but the blade seems to be wootz and there is a strange triangular demarcation area on both sides near the hilt. Is this the sign of a possible welded tang? People with more knowledge of metallurgy may be able to help me here. The scabbard appears to be silver with what could be a makers signature. Any translations welcome. Is the Albanian attribution accurate? Any ideas as to the possible date. Feels to be a well constructed piece and the blade is very nicely patinated. I applied a light etch of dilute ferric chloride to bring out the pattern. As always all comments and opinions welcome. Attached Images

16th August 2018, 10:35 AM	#7
RobertGuy Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 135	Thanks for all the help. Sorry for slow reply. I have done some more pictures, not sure if they add anything. Rhino horn would be interesting, if a little bit disconcerting. Attached Images

16th August 2018, 10:42 AM	#8
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	Unfortunately, the hilt is not made from a horn of a rhinoceros ... This, as I said, is the horn of a buffalo. Pay attention to the elements that I highlighted in red. You can see the curvature of the structure of the horn and the cracks. The structure of the rhinoceros horn fibers (keratin) is always straight. See the two last photos. Attached Images

17th August 2018, 12:50 AM	#10
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	Not to hijack the thread, but the picture of the hilt (I reposted below) brought a question to mind - has anyone ever thought this hilt form might be related to some of the European ballock dagger hilts? The region (Asia Minor/Mediterranean) has a long history of phallic-shaped fertility amulets. I would think the Islamic tradition of avoiding direct representation in favor of the more abstract would lend itself well to shaping a knife's hilt in this way. Of course...it could just be that Freud would have a field day with me on his couch, and that a cigar is sometimes just a cigar. Attached Images

7th August 2018, 03:36 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	The handle looks very much like rhinoceros horn.

7th August 2018, 03:49 PM	#3
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	I think it's a Kurdish dagger. A hilt is a buffalo horn, but not a rhinoceros. A good dagger.

8th August 2018, 01:33 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	Like Mahratt I lean towards Kurdish.

8th August 2018, 01:29 PM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	It is Kurdish with Ottoman influence ( see terminal of the scabbard) and it is horn. Whether it is rhino or buffalo is difficult to be certain because of a worn-out surface and a single pic. Any pics of the top of its pommel and of smooth surface?

16th August 2018, 12:35 PM	#9
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	Hi, I agree with Ariel. Definitely Kurdish, not Albanian. The shape of the scabbard and particularly the point are Ottoman, but not necessarily Turkish - it was common in parts of the Ottoman Empire during that time, and your dagger is definitely of Ottoman age. This shape of hilt and also the filigree ornaments are uncommon, but I have seen both on Kurdish daggers before. If I had to guess, I would say Northern Iraq. The writing says A'mal Naser - the work of Naser, but I am not very good in reading Arabic, as shown very recently , so you should ask around. Very nice dagger