6th November 2015, 02:05 AM | #1 |
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Origins of this yatagan.
Since this yatagan is now listed as being "sold" I was wondering if any forum member has an idea of were this yatagan may have come from. I can not remember seeing a scabbard like this one before.
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6th November 2015, 06:18 AM | #2 |
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Off hand the Balkans.
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6th November 2015, 07:28 AM | #3 | |
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Not all the Yatagan are from the Balkans. What make you think that? It's a very strange yatagan... |
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6th November 2015, 12:11 PM | #4 | |
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7th November 2015, 01:49 AM | #5 | |
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However, one of the classic signs of Balkan manufacture is the form of the hilt "ears" - when large like these are and in this form, they are more than not from the Balkans. Pieces from mainland Turkey exhibit much smaller "ears" if you can even call them that. The one exception seems to come from Sarayevo where there is a form without "ears" at all, but more of a form of pistol grip. One other note, the mounts on the top and bottom of the scabbard look more European to me, though close ups pictures would help. i will agree that even for a Balkan example, this one is a little strange or unusual. |
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7th November 2015, 04:44 AM | #6 | |
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7th November 2015, 06:23 AM | #7 |
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It is possible that the scabbard is a later replacement. I base this on the style of workmanship. If so this might explain some of the questions regarding the scabbard.
Certainly the stone on top next to the hilt is a later addition. Traditionally Ottomans did not place one there (and it would fall of anyway) and there is the issue of the style of stone setting which is more modern and not traditionally Ottoman. |
7th November 2015, 06:58 AM | #8 | |
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7th November 2015, 08:48 AM | #9 |
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The wooden grip are clearly modern replacement.
The scabbard looks good to me. |
7th November 2015, 08:50 AM | #10 | |
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7th November 2015, 09:56 PM | #11 |
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The stone on the sword in question is faceted, which implies, to me at any rate, a (relatively) modern origin. Its setting seems consistent with the rest of the fittings on the hilt.
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17th January 2016, 10:53 AM | #12 |
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I still have not seen anything similar to this yatagan, here are some additional pictures. 28 inches long.
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17th January 2016, 11:03 AM | #13 |
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I like your yatagan, the date on the blade is 1825.
Is the central part of the scabbard silver? Congrat!! |
17th January 2016, 11:05 AM | #14 | |
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17th January 2016, 11:12 AM | #15 | |
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17th January 2016, 11:27 AM | #16 |
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In the last set of pics, the fourth from below, scabbard fitting: isn't there a half-moon and a star?
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17th January 2016, 11:32 AM | #17 | |
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17th January 2016, 12:18 PM | #18 |
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This yatagan is similar in some ways, the blade has gold marking on one side and silver on the other, the scabbard ends are similar as is the grip which may be wood, it is the closest I have seen.
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18th January 2016, 01:22 AM | #19 |
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This is probably the least helpful comment. But when in it's scabbard, it looks like a fish...just sayin'.
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18th January 2016, 07:06 AM | #20 | |
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19th January 2016, 12:12 AM | #21 |
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Thanks for the close ups. Now I see that this is truly more unusual than I originally thought. Though still leaning Balkan, it now does not seem as Balkan as I thought now that I see these later picture close ups.
Regarding the 2nd example, what region does it come from in the Ottoman Empire? Also I agree with Kubur regarding the fish/monster scabbard finial. Quite common on Ottoman yataghans, both on sword and dagger styles. |
19th January 2016, 01:52 AM | #22 |
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The one with a silver handle has round non-striated red stones ( corals?) .
I recall that Elgood mentioned it as a specific sign of manufacture in Foca. |
19th January 2016, 11:28 PM | #23 | |
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Is this the yatagan you mean (Regarding the 2nd example, what region does it come from in the Ottoman Empire?), if so it is from the Met. Ottoman (Anatolian or Balkan) yatagan / yataghan, dated 1802–3, steel, silver, gold, coral, Length 29 in. (73.66 cm) Length of blade, 23 1/8 in. (58.72 cm), Wt. 3 lb. 8 oz. (1588 g). Met Museum. The yatagan was popular throughout the Ottoman Empire. It is distinguished by a single-edged blade that curves slightly inward and by a hilt with no guard and two flared wings at the pommel. |
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20th January 2016, 01:14 AM | #24 |
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I am sorry but am I the only one here who feels we are debating late 20th century (at best) fittings? Referring to the yataghan starting this thread and the one in post 18, not the Foca examples of course.
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20th January 2016, 03:15 AM | #25 |
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Theodor,
IMHO, you might be correct re. wooden handle and scabbard but the blade and metal handle fittings ( again, IMHO) seem to be old. I am wondering whence it came to the market. I have seen so many crude and thoughtless renovations from Bulgaria.... |
20th January 2016, 03:29 AM | #26 | |
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20th January 2016, 03:57 AM | #27 |
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The engraving on both blades and the hilts seem to be quite similar in my opinion.
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20th January 2016, 09:47 PM | #28 | |
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Now, this does not suggest any attempt to deceive. I just consider these to be a modern attempt at restoration. Teodor P.S. Ariel is correct that there is a multitude of "artists" who restore old weapons in Bulgaria, with results varying in quality and appearance. I am also sure that Bulgaria is not unique in this regard. I can provide examples, but I do not feel modern replicas should be the focus of these fora. |
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21st January 2016, 06:55 AM | #29 | |
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21st January 2016, 11:45 AM | #30 |
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What makes my antennae twitching is the apparently different metals of the bolster parts and the scabbard fittings, the clumsiness of the scabbard's mouth ( the real things are almost in line with the handle and not almost twice as thick as here) and the crudeness of the scabbard decoration. I am also very uneasy about the " fish head": usually it is almost like a separate detail, turned up and more like a "dolphin-head". This one is short, stubby and looks like a herring:-) .
The more I look at it, the less I like it. But the blade is unquestionably real. TVV is correct: Bulgaria is not the only one place in the world exporting benign or not so benign:-) "restorations". Simply I saw quite a lot of things on E-Bay coming from there with similar features and very similar wooden ears of a non-traditional contour. |
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