Opinions on this....

BSMStar · 7th July 2006, 01:13 AM

I just purchased this Keris Sajen... I really like it!

I do not believe it is from the Majapahit time frame, please correct me if I am wrong. (As a note, this could have been made yesterday and I would still buy it and be happy with it.... well, errr, ahhh, I did buy it

).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=200000588561

Any opinions?

nechesh · 7th July 2006, 02:11 AM

Hi Wayne. I have been very interested in these blades for some time, but still haven't found the right one for purchase yet. I find it is very difficult to actually judge the age of these especially since they have such a "primitive" look to begin with and are therefore even easier to make them appear old. Obviously they are still being made to this day and many new ones are passed off as old. That being said i couldn't begin to guess as to the age of yours. It is a nice looking one.

It does seem to me that the actual old ones tend not to have very complex pamors patterns, or for that matter, pamor at all.
I believe what you say in your first sentence is most important. You really like it.

I would be interested in hearing more about what you and others believe about these talismanic keris. There appears to be very little VERIFIABLE information.
If you haven't seen this gallery on Alan's website you should check it out:
http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/kerissajen.html

BSMStar · 7th July 2006, 01:08 PM

Hi nechesh,

I am on Alan's mailing list but thank you for adding his link! Unfortunately, Alan and Matt do not talk about the ages of these Keris.

I too have admired these Keris for some time. There is just "something" about these "proto-keris" that stir the imagination.

Maybe someone will enlighten us on the importance (no secrets) of these fascinating Keris and if they are being made in modern times for ceremonial use.

I have two old Keris, one that I believe is from the Majapahit period and the other is a little later. The consistency of the iron of these older Keris is a bit different. But I wanted to hear from the folks who are more knowledgeable...

I did not pay much for it and I did not expect much... and it exceeded my expectations. So yes, I like it a lot. Some day, I will cough up the funds for an old one.

VANDOO · 7th July 2006, 03:05 PM

EVER SINCE I FIRST SAW THESE THEY HAVE BEEN REPRESENTED AS PROTO KERIS MEANING A EARLY FORM BEFORE KERIS LIKE WE HAVE TODAY. I NOW WONDER IF THEY WERE NOT THE FIRST FORM OF KERIS BUT A TYPE DEVELOPED FOR CEREMONY OR OFFERINGS INSTEAD OF A WEAPON. IN CHINA AND OTHER COUNTRYS THERE ARE OBJECTS THAT LOOK LIKE WEAPONS BUT ARE PURELY FOR CERMONYS OR TEMPLE OFFERINGS AND ARE MORE TAILSMAN THAN WEAPON. THERE ARE SMALL CHINESE SWORDS THAT ARE ONLY USED TO HANG UP FOR GOOD LUCK DURING CERTIAN OCCASIONS OR HOLIDAYS PERHAPS THESE ANCIENT KERIS FALL INTO THAT CATAGORY.

I DO LIKE THEM BUT THE ONES I HAVE SEEN DIDN'T LOOK LIKE THEY WOULD BE VERY GOOD WEAPONS BUT DUE TO THEIR LOOKS AND REPUTATION OF AGE WOULD BE EXCELLENT TAILSMEN. I HAVE NEVER READ ANYTHING THAT DEFINITELY SAYS THERE IS ARCHEOLOGICAL PROOF OF THEM BEING WEAPONS SUCH AS ACTUAL BATTLE FIELD FINDS.

mross · 7th July 2006, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSMStar

The consistency of the iron of these older Keris is a bit different.

As long as you are happy with it, that is all that matters. But, there is always a "but" I agree with your quote. I have looked at many keris from this seller and they all make me think much newer then stated.

BSMStar · 7th July 2006, 06:16 PM

Hi mross,

I really don't want to go in to any sellers here, just the Keris itself. I made my purchase fully knowing what I was buying.

If you look at Alan and Matt's site, some of these Keris look "older" and some not so old. It appears these have been made over time (not only from the Majapahit period). I have to assume that this type of Keris has great significance and meaning. I agree with vandoo and nechesh, these seem to be better used as a talismanic device rather than as a weapon... maybe to ward off some unpleasantness or to bring forth abundance.

In any case, I am happy to give it a new home.

7th July 2006, 01:13 AM	#1
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	Opinions on this.... I just purchased this Keris Sajen... I really like it! I do not believe it is from the Majapahit time frame, please correct me if I am wrong. (As a note, this could have been made yesterday and I would still buy it and be happy with it.... well, errr, ahhh, I did buy it ). http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=200000588561 Any opinions?

7th July 2006, 06:16 PM	#6
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	Hi mross, I really don't want to go in to any sellers here, just the Keris itself. I made my purchase fully knowing what I was buying. If you look at Alan and Matt's site, some of these Keris look "older" and some not so old. It appears these have been made over time (not only from the Majapahit period). I have to assume that this type of Keris has great significance and meaning. I agree with vandoo and nechesh, these seem to be better used as a talismanic device rather than as a weapon... maybe to ward off some unpleasantness or to bring forth abundance. In any case, I am happy to give it a new home. Last edited by BSMStar; 7th July 2006 at 11:54 PM.

7th July 2006, 02:11 AM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Hi Wayne. I have been very interested in these blades for some time, but still haven't found the right one for purchase yet. I find it is very difficult to actually judge the age of these especially since they have such a "primitive" look to begin with and are therefore even easier to make them appear old. Obviously they are still being made to this day and many new ones are passed off as old. That being said i couldn't begin to guess as to the age of yours. It is a nice looking one. It does seem to me that the actual old ones tend not to have very complex pamors patterns, or for that matter, pamor at all. I believe what you say in your first sentence is most important. You really like it. I would be interested in hearing more about what you and others believe about these talismanic keris. There appears to be very little VERIFIABLE information. If you haven't seen this gallery on Alan's website you should check it out: http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/kerissajen.html

7th July 2006, 01:08 PM	#3
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	Hi nechesh, I am on Alan's mailing list but thank you for adding his link! Unfortunately, Alan and Matt do not talk about the ages of these Keris. I too have admired these Keris for some time. There is just "something" about these "proto-keris" that stir the imagination. Maybe someone will enlighten us on the importance (no secrets) of these fascinating Keris and if they are being made in modern times for ceremonial use. I have two old Keris, one that I believe is from the Majapahit period and the other is a little later. The consistency of the iron of these older Keris is a bit different. But I wanted to hear from the folks who are more knowledgeable... I did not pay much for it and I did not expect much... and it exceeded my expectations. So yes, I like it a lot. Some day, I will cough up the funds for an old one.

7th July 2006, 03:05 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	EVER SINCE I FIRST SAW THESE THEY HAVE BEEN REPRESENTED AS PROTO KERIS MEANING A EARLY FORM BEFORE KERIS LIKE WE HAVE TODAY. I NOW WONDER IF THEY WERE NOT THE FIRST FORM OF KERIS BUT A TYPE DEVELOPED FOR CEREMONY OR OFFERINGS INSTEAD OF A WEAPON. IN CHINA AND OTHER COUNTRYS THERE ARE OBJECTS THAT LOOK LIKE WEAPONS BUT ARE PURELY FOR CERMONYS OR TEMPLE OFFERINGS AND ARE MORE TAILSMAN THAN WEAPON. THERE ARE SMALL CHINESE SWORDS THAT ARE ONLY USED TO HANG UP FOR GOOD LUCK DURING CERTIAN OCCASIONS OR HOLIDAYS PERHAPS THESE ANCIENT KERIS FALL INTO THAT CATAGORY. I DO LIKE THEM BUT THE ONES I HAVE SEEN DIDN'T LOOK LIKE THEY WOULD BE VERY GOOD WEAPONS BUT DUE TO THEIR LOOKS AND REPUTATION OF AGE WOULD BE EXCELLENT TAILSMEN. I HAVE NEVER READ ANYTHING THAT DEFINITELY SAYS THERE IS ARCHEOLOGICAL PROOF OF THEM BEING WEAPONS SUCH AS ACTUAL BATTLE FIELD FINDS.