Tenegre

Sajen · 30th April 2011, 04:33 PM

Hello members,

I have just bought this Visayan tenegre by best offer. What do you think? A part of the nose seems to be reglued and a small piece of the nose tip is missing. Special the age of this piece would be of great interest for me.

Regards,

Detlef

Robert · 30th April 2011, 05:03 PM

Hello Detlef, By looking at the carving I would guess that it is second quarter 20th century "1925-1950" and if I had to narrow it down I would say 1935-1945. That would be my best guess but it is just that, a guess. Others with more knowledge will answer and be able to give you a more exact age that I can. A very nice item though and my congratulation on your new acquisition to your collection.

Robert

Sajen · 30th April 2011, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

Hello Detlef, By looking at the carving I would guess that it is second quarter 20th century "1925-1950" and if I had to narrow it down I would say 1935-1945. That would be my best guess but it is just that, a guess. Others with more knowledge will answer and be able to give you a more exact age that I can. A very nice item though and my congratulation on your new acquisition to your collection.

Robert

Hello Robert,

thank you! Have hoped that it is a little bit older but still ok by the price I have paid for.

And I every time I want to have one, so this is maybe a good start.

Regards,

Detlef

Battara · 1st May 2011, 12:10 AM

It is a lowlander tenegre. I guess it could be a little older, say 1920, but I am in agreement with Robert on this. STill not a bad little piece. Congrats!

Henk · 1st May 2011, 09:55 AM

Very nice Detlef. Congrats on this very nice piece.

Sajen · 1st May 2011, 10:42 AM

Hello Jose,

thank you ver much for your comment and narrow down the origin.

Hello Henk,

also to you thank's! I ever want to have such a tenegre and this one was cheap and with complete sheath.

Look here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...K%3AMEWNX%3AIT

Regards,

Detlef

kai · 3rd May 2011, 12:10 PM

Hello Detlef,

Certainly a nice grab complete with good scabbard. Is the brass ferrule strong? (Looks a bit thin from the pics.)

Could this be an early 20th c. blade that got rehilted later (like WW2 or thereabouts)? The workmanship and wear on the hilt doesn't look on par with the blade and scabbard IMVHO.

Regards,
Kai

Sajen · 3rd May 2011, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Detlef,

Certainly a nice grab complete with good scabbard. Is the brass ferrule strong? (Looks a bit thin from the pics.)

Could this be an early 20th c. blade that got rehilted later (like WW2 or thereabouts)? The workmanship and wear on the hilt doesn't look on par with the blade and scabbard IMVHO.

Regards,
Kai

Hello Kai,

thank you for comment.

Can't answer your inquiry about the ferrule since I don't received the tenegre until now.

Regarding the hilt you may be correct as it seems that the hilt isn't deep enough on the tang.

Regards,

Detlef

Battara · 3rd May 2011, 10:48 PM

I think Kai has a point (get it!

) this may have been rehilted to an older blade.

Sajen · 17th May 2011, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Detlef,

Certainly a nice grab complete with good scabbard. Is the brass ferrule strong? (Looks a bit thin from the pics.)

Could this be an early 20th c. blade that got rehilted later (like WW2 or thereabouts)? The workmanship and wear on the hilt doesn't look on par with the blade and scabbard IMVHO.

Regards,
Kai

Received the sword yesterday. You may be correct that the sword was rehilted not only because the different wear but as well as it seems that the used wood isn't a good one (maybe coconut tree).
The brass ferrule is a little bit more than 1 mm. I don't know how strong it is by older ones.
The tip of the blade was compressed but this I have grinded with a stone.
Will post some pictures later.

Regards,

Detlef

Robert · 18th May 2011, 07:16 AM

Hello Detlef,
I am looking forward to seeing the new pictures of this very nice piece. When you post them could you please also post the measurements, total length of the sword, blade length, width at the widest point and the thickness of the blade at the hilt? Again congratulations on a very nice score.

Robert

Sajen · 18th May 2011, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

Hello Detlef,
I am looking forward to seeing the new pictures of this very nice piece. When you post them could you please also post the measurements, total length of the sword, blade length, width at the widest point and the thickness of the blade at the hilt? Again congratulations on a very nice score.

Robert

Hello Robert,

here at first the measurements. Total length: 61 cm (24 inch), blade: 45,5 (17.9), width at the widest point: 4,5 (1.8) and the thickness near the hilt is 1,6 mm (0,06).
I have oiled the wooden parts with a wood oil and the leather with dubbin and the blade I oiled with WD40.
Some questions to you and all others:
I think that there is a missing guard down under the handle, what do you think?
Shall I clean the brass parts? I personally think it is better to keep them like this.
Shall I clean the blade more?

Here some additional pictures taken with flash light.

Regards,

Detlef

kai · 19th May 2011, 08:13 PM

Hello Detlef,

Quote:

here at first the measurements. Total length: 61 cm (24 inch), blade: 45,5 (17.9), width at the widest point: 4,5 (1.8) and the thickness near the hilt is 1,6 mm (0,06).

Something must be wrong with the thickness - 1.6mm would be flimsy and the pics suggest otherwise...

Quote:

I think that there is a missing guard down under the handle, what do you think?

It doesn't look like it ever had a metal guard (requires a reasonably well filed blade where the tang meets) but guard disks made from horn were the norm. Does anyone has pics of tangs of such swords?

My best guess is that the blade got just sloppily fitted when the rehilting was done. Should be fairly easy to get a better fit if you reattach the blade.

Quote:

Shall I clean the brass parts? I personally think it is better to keep them like this.

Most likely these were kept polished/shiny. Nothing wrong to go by personal preference though, I guess.

Quote:

Shall I clean the blade more?

I'd remove the blade (modern glue) and give it a quick etch: it looks nice enough to possibly be laminated. If it is, some more polishing and careful etching might be warranted.

Regards,
Kai

kai · 19th May 2011, 08:23 PM

Quote:

The brass ferrule is a little bit more than 1 mm. I don't know how strong it is by older ones.

Over 1mm sounds reasonable. Craftmanship of the ferrule (and brass pieces on scabbard) looks post-WW2 to me but seems to be ok to keep this way.

Quote:

The tip of the blade was compressed but this I have grinded with a stone.

Compressed? Many smaller blade damages can be carefully straigthened out - I'd be reluctant to grind away even minor defects (to avoid loss of metal, changing the shape, etc.).

Regards,
Kai

Battara · 20th May 2011, 12:03 AM

Kai is right it is possible to straighten out the blade without regrinding it. I have done this plenty of times but very carefully with soft hammers, especially if it is in the temper line.

Robert · 20th May 2011, 03:45 AM

Quote:

I think that there is a missing guard down under the handle, what do you think?
Shall I clean the brass parts? I personally think it is better to keep them like this.
Shall I clean the blade more?

Hello Detlef, In answer to your questions, IMHO I do not think that this ever had a guard. Looking at the lower side of the blade you can see that it has been notched to fit inside the ferrule. That way when you go to reset the blade you will know how far into the hilt to set it. I agree with Kai that the blade looks like it was " just sloppily fitted" after the hilt was either replaced or had loosened and was just poorly reattached with a modern adhesive. As far as the brass fittings, I have been told that it is better to leave brass alone unless it is showing green oxidation. On cleaning the blade, if you are going to etch it I would say yes, if not I would just give it a light cleaning, oil it, wipe off all of the excess oil and apply a coat of ren wax. I hope that this is of some help.

Robert

Sajen · 21st May 2011, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Detlef,

Something must be wrong with the thickness - 1.6mm would be flimsy and the pics suggest otherwise...

It doesn't look like it ever had a metal guard (requires a reasonably well filed blade where the tang meets) but guard disks made from horn were the norm. Does anyone has pics of tangs of such swords?

My best guess is that the blade got just sloppily fitted when the rehilting was done. Should be fairly easy to get a better fit if you reattach the blade.

Most likely these were kept polished/shiny. Nothing wrong to go by personal preference though, I guess.

I'd remove the blade (modern glue) and give it a quick etch: it looks nice enough to possibly be laminated. If it is, some more polishing and careful etching might be warranted.

Regards,
Kai

Hello Kai,

you are correct, my mistake by the thickness of the blade, 6,1 mm is the correct measurement.
I will dismantling the handle and follow your advice about etching and reattaching the handle.
The compression at the blade tip was very very minor, like someone bump the blade on the ground, look the picture, the shape of the blade isn't changed.

Thank you very much,

Detlef

Sajen · 21st May 2011, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Kai is right it is possible to straighten out the blade without regrinding it. I have done this plenty of times but very carefully with soft hammers, especially if it is in the temper line.

Hello Jose,

next time I will follow your and Kai's advice to straighten out the demage.

Regards,

Detlef

Sajen · 21st May 2011, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

Hello Detlef, In answer to your questions, IMHO I do not think that this ever had a guard. Looking at the lower side of the blade you can see that it has been notched to fit inside the ferrule. That way when you go to reset the blade you will know how far into the hilt to set it. I agree with Kai that the blade looks like it was " just sloppily fitted" after the hilt was either replaced or had loosened and was just poorly reattached with a modern adhesive. As far as the brass fittings, I have been told that it is better to leave brass alone unless it is showing green oxidation. On cleaning the blade, if you are going to etch it I would say yes, if not I would just give it a light cleaning, oil it, wipe off all of the excess oil and apply a coat of ren wax. I hope that this is of some help.

Robert

Hello Robert,

thank you for the comment. Like I write before I will dismantling the handle next time and etch the blade before I attach the handle again. The brass fittings I will let alone for the moment since I like the patina and don't want to bring the sword to a unused look.
I will post pictures when I have done the work.

Best regards,

Detlef

30th April 2011, 04:33 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,761	Tenegre Hello members, I have just bought this Visayan tenegre by best offer. What do you think? A part of the nose seems to be reglued and a small piece of the nose tip is missing. Special the age of this piece would be of great interest for me. Regards, Detlef Attached Images

30th April 2011, 05:03 PM	#2
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Detlef, By looking at the carving I would guess that it is second quarter 20th century "1925-1950" and if I had to narrow it down I would say 1935-1945. That would be my best guess but it is just that, a guess. Others with more knowledge will answer and be able to give you a more exact age that I can. A very nice item though and my congratulation on your new acquisition to your collection. Robert

1st May 2011, 12:10 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	It is a lowlander tenegre. I guess it could be a little older, say 1920, but I am in agreement with Robert on this. STill not a bad little piece. Congrats!

1st May 2011, 09:55 AM	#5
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Very nice Detlef. Congrats on this very nice piece.

1st May 2011, 10:42 AM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,761	Hello Jose, thank you ver much for your comment and narrow down the origin. Hello Henk, also to you thank's! I ever want to have such a tenegre and this one was cheap and with complete sheath. Look here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...K%3AMEWNX%3AIT Regards, Detlef

3rd May 2011, 12:10 PM	#7
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Detlef, Certainly a nice grab complete with good scabbard. Is the brass ferrule strong? (Looks a bit thin from the pics.) Could this be an early 20th c. blade that got rehilted later (like WW2 or thereabouts)? The workmanship and wear on the hilt doesn't look on par with the blade and scabbard IMVHO. Regards, Kai

3rd May 2011, 10:48 PM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	I think Kai has a point (get it! ) this may have been rehilted to an older blade.

18th May 2011, 07:16 AM	#11
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Detlef, I am looking forward to seeing the new pictures of this very nice piece. When you post them could you please also post the measurements, total length of the sword, blade length, width at the widest point and the thickness of the blade at the hilt? Again congratulations on a very nice score. Robert

20th May 2011, 12:03 AM	#15
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	Kai is right it is possible to straighten out the blade without regrinding it. I have done this plenty of times but very carefully with soft hammers, especially if it is in the temper line.