Sulu kris with ivory horse hoof pommel

DaveS · 21st May 2014, 12:59 AM

Here is a moro kris with a horse hoof pommel that has carabau horn spacers. 22 inch laminated blade, 27 inches overall. Something not seen very often is a plate of silver on the back end of the gangya. At the tip of the blade it looks like there could be a talismanic engraving, maybe in this case a centipede. Kris is probably from the early to late 20s. Scabbard from the second W.W. or a little later..........Dave.

VANDOO · 21st May 2014, 07:25 AM

A NICE LOOKING KRIS THE COMBINATION OF SILVER, IVORY AND HORN IS ESPECIALLY ASCETICALY PLEASING TO THE EYE. NICE WORK ON THE BLADE PERHAPS THE BLADE AND HANDLE ARE NOT OF THE SAME AGE WITH THE BLADE BEING OLDER AS IS OFTEN THE CASE.

Sajen · 21st May 2014, 11:43 AM

Hello Dave,

agree with Barry, a pleasure to look at, a shame that some of the mother of pearl pieces missing from the scabbard. But other as Barry I think that the blade is a little bit roughtly worked, maybe a sign that the blade is a little bit later as you thought?

Is the gangya separate?
The handle is beautiful and the silver plate over the gangya is an extra plus.

Regards,
Detlef

CharlesS · 21st May 2014, 12:42 PM

Hi Dave,

Another good looking piece! Is the ganja here chiseled in or real? It's hard to tell from the pics and there is clearly lots of chiseled lines elsewhere.

DaveS · 21st May 2014, 07:48 PM

Hey guys: It's a two piece gangya. That's why i feel, given the overall look, that it might be a piece from the 20s, or maybe even a little earlier.......Dave.

Sajen · 21st May 2014, 09:48 PM

So maybe a pre WWII blade.

BTW, is someone able to explain why by nearly all scabbards of this newer type with MOP plates the front is reverse to the older ones?

Regards,
Detlef

David · 22nd May 2014, 04:05 PM

Just wondering…for a blade that has some fairly complex and reasonably executed carving, why are the incised lines around the fullers so sloppy. Doesn't look like the hand of the original maker. Could these lines have been added later?

DaveS · 22nd May 2014, 07:45 PM

David: Yes, you could be right. The inscised line are definitely not done to the same standards as the rest of the blade. Only question is, are these lines and the centipede??? like engraving done by the same person? Looks to me that the quality of both indicates they were done by two different people.......Dave.

David · 22nd May 2014, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveS

…the centipede??? like engraving…

I must say i'm a bit skeptical this was intended to be a centipede. It doesn't look like any of the other more obvious centipede markings i've seen on these blades, even the simplest renderings of the bug. It looks more like a tree or something more plant-like. I don't see anything like pinchers, even in a extremely stylized manner, that would lead me to think centipede. Doesn't mean the "tree" (if it is that) doesn't still have some talismanic purpose. I do think, however, that we are sometimes too quick to ascribe every little line and design on a blade as "talismanic".

Battara · 23rd May 2014, 01:09 AM

Sorry to join in so late. Yes I agree with David in his observations. The lines seem later to me. DaveS I also think the blade is earlier than the hilt.

Regarding the centipede: this is actually a vegetative motif seen on other blades, not a centipede (again agreeing with David). Usually the centipede motif is in "movement" and a little wider from what I have seen on Moro blades so far.

DaveS · 23rd May 2014, 02:30 AM

David, Jose: I agree with you both that too often we ascribe every little line on a moro kris as well as other weapons to be "talismanic" in some way. Sadly in most cases, we will never really know the intent of these engravings..........Dave.

kino · 23rd May 2014, 04:14 PM

Where have you been hiding this one Dave? Like Vandoo said " pleasing to the eye"

DaveS · 23rd May 2014, 10:16 PM

Albert: I just got this one about a month ago, so i didn't have it at Eugene. There is something "pleasing to the eye" about this kris. I just haven't figured out what it is.............Dave.

21st May 2014, 12:59 AM	#1
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Sulu kris with ivory horse hoof pommel Here is a moro kris with a horse hoof pommel that has carabau horn spacers. 22 inch laminated blade, 27 inches overall. Something not seen very often is a plate of silver on the back end of the gangya. At the tip of the blade it looks like there could be a talismanic engraving, maybe in this case a centipede. Kris is probably from the early to late 20s. Scabbard from the second W.W. or a little later..........Dave. Attached Images

21st May 2014, 07:25 AM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	A NICE LOOKING KRIS THE COMBINATION OF SILVER, IVORY AND HORN IS ESPECIALLY ASCETICALY PLEASING TO THE EYE. NICE WORK ON THE BLADE PERHAPS THE BLADE AND HANDLE ARE NOT OF THE SAME AGE WITH THE BLADE BEING OLDER AS IS OFTEN THE CASE.

21st May 2014, 11:43 AM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,775	Hello Dave, agree with Barry, a pleasure to look at, a shame that some of the mother of pearl pieces missing from the scabbard. But other as Barry I think that the blade is a little bit roughtly worked, maybe a sign that the blade is a little bit later as you thought? Is the gangya separate? The handle is beautiful and the silver plate over the gangya is an extra plus. Regards, Detlef

21st May 2014, 12:42 PM	#4
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Hi Dave, Another good looking piece! Is the ganja here chiseled in or real? It's hard to tell from the pics and there is clearly lots of chiseled lines elsewhere.

21st May 2014, 07:48 PM	#5
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Hey guys: It's a two piece gangya. That's why i feel, given the overall look, that it might be a piece from the 20s, or maybe even a little earlier.......Dave.

21st May 2014, 09:48 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,775	So maybe a pre WWII blade. BTW, is someone able to explain why by nearly all scabbards of this newer type with MOP plates the front is reverse to the older ones? Regards, Detlef

22nd May 2014, 04:05 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,121	Just wondering…for a blade that has some fairly complex and reasonably executed carving, why are the incised lines around the fullers so sloppy. Doesn't look like the hand of the original maker. Could these lines have been added later?

22nd May 2014, 07:45 PM	#8
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	David: Yes, you could be right. The inscised line are definitely not done to the same standards as the rest of the blade. Only question is, are these lines and the centipede??? like engraving done by the same person? Looks to me that the quality of both indicates they were done by two different people.......Dave.

23rd May 2014, 01:09 AM	#10
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Sorry to join in so late. Yes I agree with David in his observations. The lines seem later to me. DaveS I also think the blade is earlier than the hilt. Regarding the centipede: this is actually a vegetative motif seen on other blades, not a centipede (again agreeing with David). Usually the centipede motif is in "movement" and a little wider from what I have seen on Moro blades so far.

23rd May 2014, 02:30 AM	#11
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	David, Jose: I agree with you both that too often we ascribe every little line on a moro kris as well as other weapons to be "talismanic" in some way. Sadly in most cases, we will never really know the intent of these engravings..........Dave.

23rd May 2014, 04:14 PM	#12
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	Where have you been hiding this one Dave? Like Vandoo said " pleasing to the eye"

23rd May 2014, 10:16 PM	#13
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Albert: I just got this one about a month ago, so i didn't have it at Eugene. There is something "pleasing to the eye" about this kris. I just haven't figured out what it is.............Dave.