2 Borneo swords for comment..

[Cerjak]

Hi everybody ,I just receive this 2 mandau swords
The first one his with 78 cm over all and 62 cm for the blade
the second is with 87 cm and a blade about 71 cm.
Unfortunately they don' have the scabbard
Any comment about age and origin will be welcome.

[Cerjak]

mores pics

[Cerjak]

last pics

[asomotif]

I like them already.
Do you have pictures of the complete blade + handle ?


(I am missing the blade tips, and would love to discuss them )

[Cerjak]

AS MOTIV
I will start with pictures from the 2 swords and after one by one I hope it will be more convenient for you

Regards

Cerjak

[Cerjak]

more shoots

[Cerjak]

the second sword alone

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by asomotif

(I am missing the blade tips, and would love to discuss them )

I think it has Murut flavour in a Bahau way.... (I meant the river Bahau and not the tribe...)

[Maurice]

Now seriously!
Nice blades Cerjak.

Upper one Kenya tribe from the Baram area, lower one from the Ibans.

Maurice

[Indianajones]

Nice examples and Maurice has already placed them (although I DO sense a bit Murut-influence ). Too bad there are no scabbards; they can have some nice carvings on them.

[Andrew]

It would be a shame to lock this great thread due to subtle (and not-so-subtle) jibes between certain members (you know who you are).

This issue is now on my "radar" and I am watching closely. Leave your personal disputes at the door when you come here. Take your personal disputes elsewhere if they originate here.

This is not the place for your internecine battles, and I truly could not care less "who started it." If you are unwilling or unable to follow this request, I will make the decision for you.

Andrew
Vikingsword Staff

[asomotif]

Originally Posted by Maurice

Upper one Kenya tribe from the Baram area, lower one from the Ibans.

Maurice

Thanks Cerjak for the abundance of pictures.

To avoid any confusion,
Maurice's identification (upper and lower) refers to the following order of mandaus :

[CharlesS]

For all of us, what specifically says "Kenyah" or "Iban" about each piece? Which features make them unique to those tribes??

[David]

...and for the record are we looking at mandaus here or parangs. It has always been my understanding that mandaus have concave/convex blades.

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

For all of us, what specifically says "Kenyah" or "Iban" about each piece? Which features make them unique to those tribes??

Hi Charles and David,

The Baram Kenja piece is typical for this area because of the "wild" carvings in combination with all other aspects (like the shape) of the handle.
Ofcourse other tribes hilts could be wildly carved, but the way this one is carved tells me it's from the Kenja's from the Baram area.
The shape of the blade in combination with the decoration and inlay in the blade, also match perfectly with the hilt.
David, according Shelford this one we could call "Baieng".

The Iban parang (for the correct name we should ask Michael, but a parang I'd call it as it isn't a mandau), has a niabor like hilt. Also the bladeshape/decoration is the right one for this area.

Maurice

[VVV]

Nice finds Cerjak!

Originally Posted by Maurice

snip

The Iban parang (for the correct name we should ask Michael, but a parang I'd call it as it isn't a mandau), has a niabor like hilt. Also the bladeshape/decoration is the right one for this area.

Maurice

I agree with Maurice. The Iban parang I would classify as a tilang kamarau (flat blade, protrusion near the handle and a downward curved tip).

Michael

[Cerjak]

Maurice ,asomotif & Michael
many thanks for your help so origin it's solve but about age I know that it is quiet dificult with ethnographic arms but would like to know your opinion and also the way you are using to determinate it
Kind regards

[Mytribalworld]

Originally Posted by Maurice

Hi Charles and David,

The Baram Kenja piece is typical for this area because of the "wild" carvings in combination with all other aspects (like the shape) of the handle.
Ofcourse other tribes hilts could be wildly carved, but the way this one is carved tells me it's from the Kenja's from the Baram area.
The shape of the blade in combination with the decoration and inlay in the blade, also match perfectly with the hilt.
David, according Shelford this one we could call "Baieng".

The Iban parang (for the correct name we should ask Michael, but a parang I'd call it as it isn't a mandau), has a niabor like hilt. Also the bladeshape/decoration is the right one for this area.

Maurice

a small addition to Maurice good explanation.... one of the specific features in Kenya handlecarving is that in most cases the used motifs are quite simple like hooks,teeth and scrolls that mostly are used to fill spaces.
handles mostly symmetric carved.
Iban carving shows a much richer variation of motifs. Handles maybe carved symmetric but also asymmetric.

Arjan