camel-dagger

corrado26 · 21st March 2016, 05:38 PM

I'd like to know opinions of better informed collectors about the dagger in the fotos. I think the grip is made from camel bone and there is no sheeth.
Thanks a lot in advance
corrado26

corrado26 · 21st March 2016, 05:39 PM

some more fotos

Roland_M · 22nd March 2016, 04:49 PM

I am unsure but if the pattern I highlighted in the Picture is formed by Schreger-lines, this hilt was made from elephant ivory.

btw, a beautiful dagger, congratulations! I like the shape of the blade.

Roland

broadaxe · 22nd March 2016, 08:51 PM

I think too the hilt is elephant ivory, but it appears to be an old, repaired hilt, mounted on a contemporary Indian blade. Check the filled holes and the resin.
The thread should be moved to the Ethno forum.

fernando · 22nd March 2016, 09:12 PM

Indeed.

Miguel · 22nd March 2016, 10:48 PM

I am not sure of the handle material but I I think you have a lovely knife Corrado. I have not seen one with a pommel in the shape of a camel`s head before, most unusual thanks for sharing. The blade looks like a form of Indian Khanjar but I cannot tell if it is double edged.

I am not sure what forum Broadaxe and Fernando are referring to, I thought we were already in the Ethnographic Arms Forum

Miguel

corrado26 · 23rd March 2016, 09:52 AM

Thanks a lot to you for your helpful comments. The blade is two edged but as broadaxe said correctly it might probably be a rather new Indian one , but I am not sure. What pleases me is the nicely carved camel grip.
Thanks once again
corrado26

A.alnakkas · 23rd March 2016, 10:24 AM

Hey Corrado,

Could you take clearer photos of the blade?

corrado26 · 23rd March 2016, 01:00 PM

The dagger belongs to a friend who is a trucker and will come back from his tour not before april 1st. So I cannot take better Fotos, but I have tried to work at least one foto of the blade.
Best regards
corrado26

fernando · 23rd March 2016, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miguel

...I am not sure what forum Broadaxe and Fernando are referring to, I thought we were already in the Ethnographic Arms Forum

No, Miguel; we were in the European section of the Ethnographic Arms Forum; now we are at the Ethnographic section

Roland_M · 23rd March 2016, 03:36 PM

The blade is pattern welded mechanical damascus and relatively sure not new.

New Indian damascus steel have a birds eye -pattern (in german language "small roses") in most cases.

A skillful made polishing and etching would bring back its original beauty.

corrado26 · 23rd March 2016, 04:48 PM

Hi Roland_M,
this is very good news and I appreciate the high knowledge of the members of this forum very much. As soon as I have the dagger in hands I'll make better fotos to show them here.
Best regards
corrado26

Roland_M · 24th March 2016, 05:24 PM

Hi corrado,

thank you and if you need some tips about polishing and etching including pictures of some examples of mine, please write me a personal message.

Roland

Miguel · 25th March 2016, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

No, Miguel; we were in the European section of the Ethnographic Arms Forum; now we are at the Ethnographic section

Apologies Fernando and Broadaxe I did not realize.

Miguel

fernando · 25th March 2016, 11:34 PM

No apologies needed

Montino Bourbon · 31st March 2016, 03:36 AM

My friends from a Rajasthani noble family have daggers that look VERY similar to this one, down to the koftgari. They have had them in the family for a long time, so it's possible that the whole dagger is old.

Helleri · 31st March 2016, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland_M

I am unsure but if the pattern I highlighted in the Picture is formed by Schreger-lines, this hilt was made from elephant ivory.

btw, a beautiful dagger, congratulations! I like the shape of the blade.

Roland

There is a possibility that it is Mammoth...Schreger lines tells us that it is from this group of animals. But the only way to be certain about whether it is from an extant or extinct animal is to look at the included degree angle of the cross hatching that the schreger lines form. Greater than 115° and it's Elephant. Lesser then 90° and it's Mammoth. But this test is only 100% accurate if the ivory is a clean cross section from the outer most layer of tusk. Generally speaking Elephant cross hatching is more cube shaped, and Mammoth cross hatching is more diamond shaped.

I would agree that taken with the look of that cross hatching, the color, the sheen, the way it cleaves where it has cracked...It looks like Elephant ivory. But the very small chance that it could be Mammoth ivory (as it is also exported worldwide and has been for some time) still remains. Just something to keep in mind with it.

corrado26 · 2nd April 2016, 06:08 PM

Finally I got the camel dagger for my collection and made some fotos. After having examined the grip and the explanations by Helleri in mind I'm nearly sure that is elephant ivory. The total length of the dagger is 291mm, the blade is 191mm and is wide 22mm.

corrado26

mariusgmioc · 2nd April 2016, 08:47 PM

In my opinion, the hilt is almost certainly very old elephant ivory but I am not very sure about the blade. I believe the blade is not new but much more recent than the hilt (my guess for the blade would be 20 century).

But this is just my opinion.

Blacksmith · 2nd April 2016, 09:38 PM

[QUOTE=mariusgmioc]In my opinion, the hilt is almost certainly very old elephant ivory but I am not very sure about the blade. I believe the blade is not new but much more recent than the hilt (my guess for the blade would be 20 century).

Agreed, blade and the koftgari looks a little bit like new, like the blades that are coming from India at the moment.

21st March 2016, 05:38 PM	#1
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	camel-dagger I'd like to know opinions of better informed collectors about the dagger in the fotos. I think the grip is made from camel bone and there is no sheeth. Thanks a lot in advance corrado26 Attached Images

21st March 2016, 05:39 PM	#2
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	some more fotos Attached Images

22nd March 2016, 04:49 PM	#3
Roland_M Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Germany Posts: 525	I am unsure but if the pattern I highlighted in the Picture is formed by Schreger-lines, this hilt was made from elephant ivory. btw, a beautiful dagger, congratulations! I like the shape of the blade. Roland Attached Images

22nd March 2016, 10:48 PM	#6
Miguel Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 584	Camel head Pommel Dagger I am not sure of the handle material but I I think you have a lovely knife Corrado. I have not seen one with a pommel in the shape of a camel`s head before, most unusual thanks for sharing. The blade looks like a form of Indian Khanjar but I cannot tell if it is double edged. I am not sure what forum Broadaxe and Fernando are referring to, I thought we were already in the Ethnographic Arms Forum Miguel

23rd March 2016, 01:00 PM	#9
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	The dagger belongs to a friend who is a trucker and will come back from his tour not before april 1st. So I cannot take better Fotos, but I have tried to work at least one foto of the blade. Best regards corrado26 Attached Images

22nd March 2016, 08:51 PM	#4
broadaxe Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 332	I think too the hilt is elephant ivory, but it appears to be an old, repaired hilt, mounted on a contemporary Indian blade. Check the filled holes and the resin. The thread should be moved to the Ethno forum.

22nd March 2016, 09:12 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Indeed.

23rd March 2016, 09:52 AM	#7
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	Thanks a lot to you for your helpful comments. The blade is two edged but as broadaxe said correctly it might probably be a rather new Indian one , but I am not sure. What pleases me is the nicely carved camel grip. Thanks once again corrado26

23rd March 2016, 10:24 AM	#8
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Hey Corrado, Could you take clearer photos of the blade?

23rd March 2016, 03:36 PM	#11
Roland_M Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Germany Posts: 525	The blade is pattern welded mechanical damascus and relatively sure not new. New Indian damascus steel have a birds eye -pattern (in german language "small roses") in most cases. A skillful made polishing and etching would bring back its original beauty.

23rd March 2016, 04:48 PM	#12
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	Hi Roland_M, this is very good news and I appreciate the high knowledge of the members of this forum very much. As soon as I have the dagger in hands I'll make better fotos to show them here. Best regards corrado26

24th March 2016, 05:24 PM	#13
Roland_M Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Germany Posts: 525	Hi corrado, thank you and if you need some tips about polishing and etching including pictures of some examples of mine, please write me a personal message. Roland

25th March 2016, 11:34 PM	#15
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	No apologies needed

31st March 2016, 03:36 AM	#16
Montino Bourbon Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, California Posts: 301	May be all old My friends from a Rajasthani noble family have daggers that look VERY similar to this one, down to the koftgari. They have had them in the family for a long time, so it's possible that the whole dagger is old. Attached Images

2nd April 2016, 06:08 PM	#18
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	Finally I got the camel dagger for my collection and made some fotos. After having examined the grip and the explanations by Helleri in mind I'm nearly sure that is elephant ivory. The total length of the dagger is 291mm, the blade is 191mm and is wide 22mm. corrado26 Attached Images

2nd April 2016, 08:47 PM	#19
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	In my opinion, the hilt is almost certainly very old elephant ivory but I am not very sure about the blade. I believe the blade is not new but much more recent than the hilt (my guess for the blade would be 20 century). But this is just my opinion.

2nd April 2016, 09:38 PM	#20
Blacksmith Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Finland Posts: 98	[QUOTE=mariusgmioc]In my opinion, the hilt is almost certainly very old elephant ivory but I am not very sure about the blade. I believe the blade is not new but much more recent than the hilt (my guess for the blade would be 20 century). Agreed, blade and the koftgari looks a little bit like new, like the blades that are coming from India at the moment.