Kampilan

Jim McDougall · 21st January 2023, 03:42 AM

This kampilan I have had for many years, but honestly this field is something quite unfamiliar to me. It does not have the profiled blade tip seen on so many of these, and I wonder if those of you well versed in these might offer some classification and possibly provenance ideas.

Battara · 21st January 2023, 04:36 AM

Hard to tell. Nice that it has a scabbard and mansala cloth. It once had a metal "eye" on each side of the hilt.

It could possibly be Maranao based on the okir on the hilt, but Iranian hilts also use this okir though they typically don't have "eyes".

Jim McDougall · 21st January 2023, 06:51 AM

Thank you Jose! Please say more on the 'okir'.
What is Mansala cloth? purpose or significance.

I was going to use the 'search' as usual, but wanted to get details specific to this one. Why the blade is different without the profiling?

kai · 21st January 2023, 08:23 AM

Nice one, Jim!

There are a number of tip configurations. This plain one is perfectly legit.

The mansala is usually tied to the gripping area and is used to secure the grip of the main hand in battle.

Based on the large holes in the crosspiece, I believe it's fair to assume that it once held the usual metal staple, probably a single one only.

BTW, what's the blade length?

Regards,
Kai

Jim McDougall · 21st January 2023, 07:19 PM

Thank you very much Kai. Its strange, in all these years I have studied so many weapon forms, but have inadvertently overlooked these and others in these regions. In a quest to try to get examples of each various type, I did not get into enough study on many particulars. '

After seeing the years of remarkable detail you guys here have always shared on these kinds of weapons, I wanted to take the opportunity to have your insights on this one rather than trying to compile info from online sources.

I dont have these weapons at hand, just these photos, so do not unfortunately have dimensions. It seems these are noted to be quite long but this I believe was around 30" blade, not the larger blades of up to 40" or more.
Thank you very much for the encouraging insights.

Now I'm curious about the large staple (now absent) but I did read that some of these had chain mail attached to the guard.

I understand that these were a combat weapon and contrary to other edged weapon forms used in these regions, did not serve as tools as required as well.

Edster · 22nd January 2023, 12:23 AM

Jim,

If your tiles are 12 X 12 I scaled the blade from the photo to estimate about 21 in. long. My scale didn't have marks, so the estimate is not precise.

Best,
Ed

kai · 22nd January 2023, 02:10 AM

You're welcome, Jim!

Quote:

I dont have these weapons at hand, just these photos, so do not unfortunately have dimensions. It seems these are noted to be quite long but this I believe was around 30" blade, not the larger blades of up to 40" or more.

About 30" is typical. Though examples are known, I'd consider 40" to be oversize.

Quote:

Now I'm curious about the large staple (now absent) but I did read that some of these had chain mail attached to the guard.

Very few examples seem have to survived - I'd love to see pics of any extant pieces! I dare to posit that this wasn't common.

Quote:

I understand that these were a combat weapon and contrary to other edged weapon forms used in these regions, did not serve as tools as required as well.

Yes, the kamp has dedicated combat and ceremonial functions (as have lots of other blade types from the archipelago). Some other do have hybrid functions though.

Regards,
Kai

Battara · 22nd January 2023, 03:19 AM

Often the mansala is blessed by an imam.

Kai is right a out the staple.

The okir on the top and bottom of the lower "jaw" look Maranao to me, but sometimes Maguindanao and even Iranun okir are similar, being adjacent to each other.

Jim McDougall · 22nd January 2023, 05:01 PM

Guys, thank you again, these insights are great, and its good to be learning more on these.
Ed, good forensics!!!! didn't think of the tiles which I think are 12" so this would be 21-24".

Were these ever used at sea, it seems like in the Philippines there were war boats etc. Also I thought of the Sea Dayaks...but they were Borneo correct?

Battara · 23rd January 2023, 03:02 AM

Yes, but some Moros lived in Borneo and traded with the Sea Dayaks as well.

And some tribes like the Moro Iranun had kampilans on their larger boats.

werecow · 23rd January 2023, 02:57 PM

Is this the "staple" / chain mail you guys are referring to?

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8530

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21204

Jim McDougall · 23rd January 2023, 04:59 PM

Thanks Jose! I was thinking maybe this shorter blade might have been for seaborne use. I have seen these termed 'cutlass' though it seems that is a colloquial term pretty much thrown around by writers describing any heavy chopping blade.

Werecow, yes, thats it, thank you for the pics, these are great!

21st January 2023, 03:42 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	Kampilan This kampilan I have had for many years, but honestly this field is something quite unfamiliar to me. It does not have the profiled blade tip seen on so many of these, and I wonder if those of you well versed in these might offer some classification and possibly provenance ideas. Attached Images

21st January 2023, 08:23 AM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Nice one, Jim! There are a number of tip configurations. This plain one is perfectly legit. The mansala is usually tied to the gripping area and is used to secure the grip of the main hand in battle. Based on the large holes in the crosspiece, I believe it's fair to assume that it once held the usual metal staple, probably a single one only. BTW, what's the blade length? Regards, Kai Last edited by kai; 21st January 2023 at 08:33 AM.

21st January 2023, 04:36 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,229	Hard to tell. Nice that it has a scabbard and mansala cloth. It once had a metal "eye" on each side of the hilt. It could possibly be Maranao based on the okir on the hilt, but Iranian hilts also use this okir though they typically don't have "eyes".

21st January 2023, 06:51 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	Thank you Jose! Please say more on the 'okir'. What is Mansala cloth? purpose or significance. I was going to use the 'search' as usual, but wanted to get details specific to this one. Why the blade is different without the profiling?

21st January 2023, 07:19 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	Thank you very much Kai. Its strange, in all these years I have studied so many weapon forms, but have inadvertently overlooked these and others in these regions. In a quest to try to get examples of each various type, I did not get into enough study on many particulars. ' After seeing the years of remarkable detail you guys here have always shared on these kinds of weapons, I wanted to take the opportunity to have your insights on this one rather than trying to compile info from online sources. I dont have these weapons at hand, just these photos, so do not unfortunately have dimensions. It seems these are noted to be quite long but this I believe was around 30" blade, not the larger blades of up to 40" or more. Thank you very much for the encouraging insights. Now I'm curious about the large staple (now absent) but I did read that some of these had chain mail attached to the guard. I understand that these were a combat weapon and contrary to other edged weapon forms used in these regions, did not serve as tools as required as well.

22nd January 2023, 12:23 AM	#6
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 408	Jim, If your tiles are 12 X 12 I scaled the blade from the photo to estimate about 21 in. long. My scale didn't have marks, so the estimate is not precise. Best, Ed

22nd January 2023, 03:19 AM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,229	Often the mansala is blessed by an imam. Kai is right a out the staple. The okir on the top and bottom of the lower "jaw" look Maranao to me, but sometimes Maguindanao and even Iranun okir are similar, being adjacent to each other.

22nd January 2023, 05:01 PM	#9
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	Guys, thank you again, these insights are great, and its good to be learning more on these. Ed, good forensics!!!! didn't think of the tiles which I think are 12" so this would be 21-24". Were these ever used at sea, it seems like in the Philippines there were war boats etc. Also I thought of the Sea Dayaks...but they were Borneo correct?

23rd January 2023, 03:02 AM	#10
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,229	Yes, but some Moros lived in Borneo and traded with the Sea Dayaks as well. And some tribes like the Moro Iranun had kampilans on their larger boats.

23rd January 2023, 02:57 PM	#11
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 500	Is this the "staple" / chain mail you guys are referring to? http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8530 http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21204

23rd January 2023, 04:59 PM	#12
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	Thanks Jose! I was thinking maybe this shorter blade might have been for seaborne use. I have seen these termed 'cutlass' though it seems that is a colloquial term pretty much thrown around by writers describing any heavy chopping blade. Werecow, yes, thats it, thank you for the pics, these are great!