Fittings on Persian sword scabbard

BerberDagger · 28th August 2008, 01:54 AM

Hi at all,
I would known if on persian culture this symbol has a meaning?

Thanks
BerberDagger

ariel · 28th August 2008, 06:13 AM

Can you show more? It looks vaguely Caucasian because of niello. On the other hand the form reminds Arabian Akrab. Need more info.

BerberDagger · 28th August 2008, 03:18 PM

Hi,
thanks for reply! Please tell me details that you need...

ariel · 28th August 2008, 08:40 PM

How about the handle and blade?
This is a striptease show: slow, with a lot of anticipation and peek-a boo-ing :-)
Any markings would be extremely useful, too.

ward · 28th August 2008, 10:22 PM

Strip tease or not its Arab work c 1850 Riyadh or Jidda

Ward

Jim McDougall · 29th August 2008, 12:25 AM

The device is the 'aghrab' which symbolizes scorpion, apotropaic in Arabian lore.

BerberDagger · 29th August 2008, 01:03 AM

Hi,
thanks ,scorpion is not symbol of war on arab culture ?

ward · 29th August 2008, 02:14 AM

It WARDs off evil. Nice word Jim how much that cost you

Jim McDougall · 29th August 2008, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ward

It WARDs off evil. Nice word Jim how much that cost you

Nice one WARD

!! 'apotropaic' was one of my big dictionary words...two bits I think!! but OK, evil it is.

ward · 29th August 2008, 08:13 PM

Hey Jim your right either way
Lets see the whole sword berber

ariel · 29th August 2008, 09:05 PM

I hate to disagree with Ward, but it seems to me that there are 2 styles: silver fittings are Caucasian ( Circassian?) whereas the throat is much newer and obviously Arabian.
We absolutely need to see the rest.

BerberDagger · 30th August 2008, 12:15 AM

Hi,
after striptease...tomorrow i post good photo...
I ve a expertise for this sword from a good expert on islamic weapons...but i m interested on other opinion...
Thanks
B.Dagger

BerberDagger · 30th August 2008, 12:31 AM

sorry tomorrow good photo

ariel · 30th August 2008, 12:49 AM

Do I see a rudimentary yelman?
Close-up of the inscription?
Is the handle of fixed width throughout or is it widening toward the base?

BerberDagger · 30th August 2008, 01:01 AM

Is the handle of fixed width throughout or is it widening toward the base?

i ve not understand your question?

thanks
B.dagger

ward · 30th August 2008, 01:02 AM

Ariel where do you see caucasus work?

ariel · 30th August 2008, 03:26 AM

middle fittings with the rings look circassian to me. never seen similar ornaments on arabian silverwork. same with the drag, but cannot see details well enough to be more certain. check astvatsaturyan's book.

ward · 30th August 2008, 10:05 PM

Ariel
Check p 12 far right and 23 Elgood Arabian arms and armor this is typical Arab work nothing like caucasaian that I can see

Ward

ariel · 2nd September 2008, 04:38 AM

I am referring strictly to the ornaments on the middle pieces: they look Circassian, with very sparse figures, petal-like. They look nearly identical to the decoration on Circassian shashkas and firearms.
The ones in the Elgood book ... I could not see any decorative pattern besides a very Arabian one on the drag.

BerberDagger · 3rd September 2008, 07:59 PM

Thanks at all for reply ...
I post aerly photos of all sword.

This sword has a expertise , for the expert mounted is ottoman and blade persian...

I wait some opinions

regards
Berberdagger

28th August 2008, 01:54 AM	#1
BerberDagger Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 247	Fittings on Persian sword scabbard Hi at all, I would known if on persian culture this symbol has a meaning? Thanks BerberDagger Attached Images

28th August 2008, 03:18 PM	#3
BerberDagger Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 247	Hi, thanks for reply! Please tell me details that you need... Attached Images

30th August 2008, 12:15 AM	#12
BerberDagger Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 247	Hi, after striptease...tomorrow i post good photo... I ve a expertise for this sword from a good expert on islamic weapons...but i m interested on other opinion... Thanks B.Dagger Last edited by BerberDagger; 30th August 2008 at 01:11 AM.

30th August 2008, 12:31 AM	#13
BerberDagger Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 247	sorry tomorrow good photo Last edited by BerberDagger; 30th August 2008 at 12:47 AM.

28th August 2008, 06:13 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Can you show more? It looks vaguely Caucasian because of niello. On the other hand the form reminds Arabian Akrab. Need more info.

28th August 2008, 08:40 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	How about the handle and blade? This is a striptease show: slow, with a lot of anticipation and peek-a boo-ing :-) Any markings would be extremely useful, too.

28th August 2008, 10:22 PM	#5
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Strip tease or not its Arab work c 1850 Riyadh or Jidda Ward

29th August 2008, 12:25 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	The device is the 'aghrab' which symbolizes scorpion, apotropaic in Arabian lore.

29th August 2008, 01:03 AM	#7
BerberDagger Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 247	Hi, thanks ,scorpion is not symbol of war on arab culture ?

29th August 2008, 02:14 AM	#8
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	It WARDs off evil. Nice word Jim how much that cost you

29th August 2008, 08:13 PM	#10
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Hey Jim your right either way Lets see the whole sword berber

29th August 2008, 09:05 PM	#11
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I hate to disagree with Ward, but it seems to me that there are 2 styles: silver fittings are Caucasian ( Circassian?) whereas the throat is much newer and obviously Arabian. We absolutely need to see the rest.

30th August 2008, 12:49 AM	#14
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Do I see a rudimentary yelman? Close-up of the inscription? Is the handle of fixed width throughout or is it widening toward the base?

30th August 2008, 01:01 AM	#15
BerberDagger Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 247	Is the handle of fixed width throughout or is it widening toward the base? i ve not understand your question? thanks B.dagger

30th August 2008, 01:02 AM	#16
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Ariel where do you see caucasus work?

30th August 2008, 03:26 AM	#17
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	middle fittings with the rings look circassian to me. never seen similar ornaments on arabian silverwork. same with the drag, but cannot see details well enough to be more certain. check astvatsaturyan's book.

30th August 2008, 10:05 PM	#18
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Ariel Check p 12 far right and 23 Elgood Arabian arms and armor this is typical Arab work nothing like caucasaian that I can see Ward

2nd September 2008, 04:38 AM	#19
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I am referring strictly to the ornaments on the middle pieces: they look Circassian, with very sparse figures, petal-like. They look nearly identical to the decoration on Circassian shashkas and firearms. The ones in the Elgood book ... I could not see any decorative pattern besides a very Arabian one on the drag.

3rd September 2008, 07:59 PM	#20
BerberDagger Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 247	Thanks at all for reply ... I post aerly photos of all sword. This sword has a expertise , for the expert mounted is ottoman and blade persian... I wait some opinions regards Berberdagger