Help ID this Oceanic Club

kino · 1st January 2013, 07:01 PM

Dimensions
Height 22 inches
Width 9.25 inches
Thickness of blade 2 inches

Incisions are filled in with a white substance, perhaps lime.
I have no idea what type of wood it is, not as heavy as I thought it would be at first glance. Could it be a ceremonial object rather than for war?
Thanks in advance.

VANDOO · 1st January 2013, 08:19 PM

THE SIZE, FORM AND DECORATION INDICATE SAMOA TO ME. I THOUGHT THIS TYPE MAY BE REFERRED TO AS A PAGO PAGO CLUB BUT THAT IS THE LOCATION WHERE FOUND NOT THE NAME OF THIS PARTICULAR CLUB. I DON'T KNOW IF THIS CLUB WAS FOR WARFARE OR A SYMBOL OF POWER OF A CHIEF OR PRIEST OR WHAT FUNCTION IT PLAYED IN THE SOCIETY. SAMOA HAS QUITE A LARGE VARIETY OF CLUB FORMS AND DECORATIONS WHICH I JUST DON'T HAVE THE REFRENCES TO INTERPRET THEIR MEANINGS OR USES IN THE SOCIETY. IT WOULD SEEM THE ANTHROPOLIGISTS WHO WROTE MANY BOOKS ABOUT THE SOCIETY WERE MORE INTERESTED IN TRIBAL SEXUAL PRACTICES THAN IN WARFARE OR THE MEANING OF VARIOUS SYMBOLS IN THE SOCIETY. SOME THINGS NEVER CHANGE.

HERE ARE 3 EXAMPLES, TWO PICTURES ARE IDENTIFIED AS PAGO PAGO CLUB 24IN LONG COLLECTED 1925, ONE PICTURE SAMOA 20 IN LONG MOST LIKELY A SIMULAR DATE. AND ONE PICTURE OF A MODERN INTREPETATION AROUND 24 IN. LONG LIKLEY VERY RECENT 2005 TO 2009.
ITS DIFFICULT TO TELL BUT I SUSPECT YOURS MAY BE FROM THE 1950 TO EARLY 1960 TIME RANGE. NICE ONE IT IS VERY WELL DONE.

kino · 1st January 2013, 10:27 PM

Thank you for your help Vandoo.

Battara · 2nd January 2013, 12:22 AM

Barry loves to go clubbing .

VANDOO · 2nd January 2013, 05:25 AM

I LOOKED THRU PARTINGTONS BOOK ON CLUBS UNDER SAMOA AND TONGA AND THRU FERGUS CLUNIES BOOK ON FIJIAN CLUBS AND WEAPONS. I FOUND NO POSITIVE MATCH ON YOUR CLUB AND PARTINGTONS BOOK SHOWS GOOD ILLUSTRATIONS AND COUNTRIES BUT NATIVE NAMES FOR WEAPONS SEEM TO BE MISSING PERHAPS I WILL TAKE A CLOSER LOOK THRU THE TEXT WHEN TIME ALOWS.
PAGO PAGO IS THE CAPITAL OF AMERICAN SAMOA AND AN IMPORTANT AMERICAN NAVAL SUPPLY BASE FROM 1878 TO 1951 SO NO DOUBT ALL SOUVINEERS WERE SHIPPED FROM ALL ISLANDS TO THAT LOCAL FOR SALE TO THE SAILORS SO LIKELY THE NAME ATTACHED TO THE CLUB I PICTURED ONLY INDICATES WHERE IT WAS AQUIRED. SO FAR THE BEST REFRENCES I HAVE FOUND ARE IN MY PRIVATE PICTURES AND REFRENCE. GOOD INFO IS DIFFICULT TO COME BY I WILL TRY AND LOOK THRU OLDMANS AND BANNERMANS CATALOGS SOON.
FANS WERE OFTEN CARRIED AND DENOTED STATUS IN OCEANIC SOCIETY. IN JAPAN A FAN SHAPED CLUB (WAR FAN) WAS OFTEN HELD BY THE ONE IN CHARGE OF BATTLE AND USED PRIMARILY TO GESTURE WITH BUT IN A PINCH COULD BE USED FOR DEFENSE. SEE OLD POST ON WAR FANS. PERHAPS CLUBS LIKE YOURS SERVED A SIMULAR PURPOSE IN THE PACIFIC AT SOME TIME.

NO CLUBBING FOR ME NEW YEARS NIGHT JUST STAYED HOME AND WATCHED BACK TO BACK DR. WHO EPISODES AND HOWLED ALONG WITH THE DOG AT MIDNITE. GETTING OLDER

Diceman · 7th February 2013, 01:14 AM

I would agree with Vandoo, Samoa. I check my library and see if I can come up with a name for you?

VANDOO · 7th February 2013, 09:40 PM

JUST PURE CONJECTURE BUT THIS SHAPE CLUB COULD HAVE BEEN INSPIRED BY THE HAMMERHEAD SHARK. THE SHARK GOD FIGURED INTO MANY LEGENDS IN OCEANIC SOCIETYS EVERYWHERE SO IT IS A POSSIBILITY.
I DON'T THINK MOST SHARK LEGENDS SINGLE OUT ONE KIND OF SHARK BUT OF THE SHARKS THAT SWIM NEAR OR ON THE SURFACE A LOT THE HAMMERHEAD RANKS NEAR THE TOP. THEREFORE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SEEN FREQUENTLY. JUST POSSIBILITYS SO DON'T FILE IT AS REFRENCE OR FACT.

HERE ARE A FEW MORE EXAMPLES ALL SAMOAN . THE DOUBLE ENDED ONE IS A SAMOAN DANCE PADDLE THERE IS ALSO A CLOSEUP OF ONE END FOR THE DESIGN DETAIL. CLOSEUP OF A LONGER CLUB WITH PAGOPAGO WRITTEN ON IT. THE CLUB MARKED PAGOPAGO WAS DATED NOV/5/1920 AND WAS 24 INCHES LONG.

Diceman · 8th February 2013, 09:19 PM

Found these pics. I have them listed as Samoa.

VANDOO · 27th February 2013, 01:34 AM

I FOUND A GOOD ARTICLE ONLINE TITLED ( SAMOAN MATERIAL CULTURE BY Te Rangi Hiroa.) QUITE A LOT OF GOOD INFORMATION THERE. THE CLUBS WE ARE DISCUSSING HERE WERE REFERRED TO AS EAR SHAPED CLUBS THERE ARE LONGER FORMS AS WELL AS THE SHORTER FORM THEY OCCUR IN SAMOA AND TONGA. IN SAMOA THEY ARE CALLED ( "FA' ALAUTALINGA )
IN TONGA THEY ARE CALLED ( APA'APAI ) THOUGH USED IN WARFARE SOME OF THESE CLUBS WERE HIGHLY DECORATED AND RESERVED FOR CHIEFS AND HIGH OFFICALS. THIS RECENTLY MADE EXAMPLE IS 18 INCHES LONG.

1st January 2013, 07:01 PM	#1
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	Help ID this Oceanic Club Dimensions Height 22 inches Width 9.25 inches Thickness of blade 2 inches Incisions are filled in with a white substance, perhaps lime. I have no idea what type of wood it is, not as heavy as I thought it would be at first glance. Could it be a ceremonial object rather than for war? Thanks in advance. Attached Images

1st January 2013, 08:19 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE SIZE, FORM AND DECORATION INDICATE SAMOA TO ME. I THOUGHT THIS TYPE MAY BE REFERRED TO AS A PAGO PAGO CLUB BUT THAT IS THE LOCATION WHERE FOUND NOT THE NAME OF THIS PARTICULAR CLUB. I DON'T KNOW IF THIS CLUB WAS FOR WARFARE OR A SYMBOL OF POWER OF A CHIEF OR PRIEST OR WHAT FUNCTION IT PLAYED IN THE SOCIETY. SAMOA HAS QUITE A LARGE VARIETY OF CLUB FORMS AND DECORATIONS WHICH I JUST DON'T HAVE THE REFRENCES TO INTERPRET THEIR MEANINGS OR USES IN THE SOCIETY. IT WOULD SEEM THE ANTHROPOLIGISTS WHO WROTE MANY BOOKS ABOUT THE SOCIETY WERE MORE INTERESTED IN TRIBAL SEXUAL PRACTICES THAN IN WARFARE OR THE MEANING OF VARIOUS SYMBOLS IN THE SOCIETY. SOME THINGS NEVER CHANGE. HERE ARE 3 EXAMPLES, TWO PICTURES ARE IDENTIFIED AS PAGO PAGO CLUB 24IN LONG COLLECTED 1925, ONE PICTURE SAMOA 20 IN LONG MOST LIKELY A SIMULAR DATE. AND ONE PICTURE OF A MODERN INTREPETATION AROUND 24 IN. LONG LIKLEY VERY RECENT 2005 TO 2009. ITS DIFFICULT TO TELL BUT I SUSPECT YOURS MAY BE FROM THE 1950 TO EARLY 1960 TIME RANGE. NICE ONE IT IS VERY WELL DONE. Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 2nd January 2013 at 05:29 AM.

7th February 2013, 09:40 PM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	JUST PURE CONJECTURE BUT THIS SHAPE CLUB COULD HAVE BEEN INSPIRED BY THE HAMMERHEAD SHARK. THE SHARK GOD FIGURED INTO MANY LEGENDS IN OCEANIC SOCIETYS EVERYWHERE SO IT IS A POSSIBILITY. I DON'T THINK MOST SHARK LEGENDS SINGLE OUT ONE KIND OF SHARK BUT OF THE SHARKS THAT SWIM NEAR OR ON THE SURFACE A LOT THE HAMMERHEAD RANKS NEAR THE TOP. THEREFORE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SEEN FREQUENTLY. JUST POSSIBILITYS SO DON'T FILE IT AS REFRENCE OR FACT. HERE ARE A FEW MORE EXAMPLES ALL SAMOAN . THE DOUBLE ENDED ONE IS A SAMOAN DANCE PADDLE THERE IS ALSO A CLOSEUP OF ONE END FOR THE DESIGN DETAIL. CLOSEUP OF A LONGER CLUB WITH PAGOPAGO WRITTEN ON IT. THE CLUB MARKED PAGOPAGO WAS DATED NOV/5/1920 AND WAS 24 INCHES LONG. Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 8th February 2013 at 12:39 AM.

8th February 2013, 09:19 PM	#8
Diceman Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kansas Posts: 11	Found these pics. I have them listed as Samoa. Attached Images

27th February 2013, 01:34 AM	#9
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I FOUND A GOOD ARTICLE ONLINE TITLED ( SAMOAN MATERIAL CULTURE BY Te Rangi Hiroa.) QUITE A LOT OF GOOD INFORMATION THERE. THE CLUBS WE ARE DISCUSSING HERE WERE REFERRED TO AS EAR SHAPED CLUBS THERE ARE LONGER FORMS AS WELL AS THE SHORTER FORM THEY OCCUR IN SAMOA AND TONGA. IN SAMOA THEY ARE CALLED ( "FA' ALAUTALINGA ) IN TONGA THEY ARE CALLED ( APA'APAI ) THOUGH USED IN WARFARE SOME OF THESE CLUBS WERE HIGHLY DECORATED AND RESERVED FOR CHIEFS AND HIGH OFFICALS. THIS RECENTLY MADE EXAMPLE IS 18 INCHES LONG. Attached Images

1st January 2013, 10:27 PM	#3
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	Thank you for your help Vandoo.

2nd January 2013, 12:22 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Barry loves to go clubbing .

2nd January 2013, 05:25 AM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I LOOKED THRU PARTINGTONS BOOK ON CLUBS UNDER SAMOA AND TONGA AND THRU FERGUS CLUNIES BOOK ON FIJIAN CLUBS AND WEAPONS. I FOUND NO POSITIVE MATCH ON YOUR CLUB AND PARTINGTONS BOOK SHOWS GOOD ILLUSTRATIONS AND COUNTRIES BUT NATIVE NAMES FOR WEAPONS SEEM TO BE MISSING PERHAPS I WILL TAKE A CLOSER LOOK THRU THE TEXT WHEN TIME ALOWS. PAGO PAGO IS THE CAPITAL OF AMERICAN SAMOA AND AN IMPORTANT AMERICAN NAVAL SUPPLY BASE FROM 1878 TO 1951 SO NO DOUBT ALL SOUVINEERS WERE SHIPPED FROM ALL ISLANDS TO THAT LOCAL FOR SALE TO THE SAILORS SO LIKELY THE NAME ATTACHED TO THE CLUB I PICTURED ONLY INDICATES WHERE IT WAS AQUIRED. SO FAR THE BEST REFRENCES I HAVE FOUND ARE IN MY PRIVATE PICTURES AND REFRENCE. GOOD INFO IS DIFFICULT TO COME BY I WILL TRY AND LOOK THRU OLDMANS AND BANNERMANS CATALOGS SOON. FANS WERE OFTEN CARRIED AND DENOTED STATUS IN OCEANIC SOCIETY. IN JAPAN A FAN SHAPED CLUB (WAR FAN) WAS OFTEN HELD BY THE ONE IN CHARGE OF BATTLE AND USED PRIMARILY TO GESTURE WITH BUT IN A PINCH COULD BE USED FOR DEFENSE. SEE OLD POST ON WAR FANS. PERHAPS CLUBS LIKE YOURS SERVED A SIMULAR PURPOSE IN THE PACIFIC AT SOME TIME. NO CLUBBING FOR ME NEW YEARS NIGHT JUST STAYED HOME AND WATCHED BACK TO BACK DR. WHO EPISODES AND HOWLED ALONG WITH THE DOG AT MIDNITE. GETTING OLDER

7th February 2013, 01:14 AM	#6
Diceman Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kansas Posts: 11	I would agree with Vandoo, Samoa. I check my library and see if I can come up with a name for you?