Pictures of a kris for posterity

[Gustav]

Dear All,

I would be very glad to hear your oppinion on this one. Original asang-asang (and probably the whole hilt) was another one, and there are some interesting markings at least on one side of the blade, something like a twistcore, ornament or letters. Could it really be from beginning of 19. cent., or is here something strange going on?

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-KRIS-KERIS-...item336501c85a

Length: 19.5 inches (about 49.5 cm).

If it will continue in this way, I will consider a possibility to have an adress in US

[Spunjer]

I really doubt the handle and asang2x are original. The blade is old, most likely from early 1800's, but handle and asang2x is much, much later. As far as twistcore, it's impossible to tell with pics provided. I did see the smudge on one of the pics, but it could just be some type of forging flaw.

[Gustav]

I made a strange mistake in my first post, I also wanted to say asang-asang and the hilt are not original.

What striked me, was the good workmanship of details and state of preservation.

[Battara]

I agree with Ron, may be even slightly earlier as far as the blade is concerned. The hilt - later of horn and silver (?) as well as the asang-asang.

However I did notice the evidence of a twist core center down the blade. Please post better pictures when you get it. Also I would place this as possibly Sulu.

Congratulations!

[Sajen]

Hello Gustav,

congrats for this nice early kris. When it is indeed twistcore you have done a very good deal. BTW, I have been one of the low bidders but have been unsure if it is a twistcore blade. Hope to see better pictures soon.

Regards,

Detlef

[Gustav]

Dear Jose and Detlef,

here I must say I did not bid on it (as I don't have an US adress), just posted the pictures.

[Battara]

OOPS! Oh well, thanks for posting this anyway.

[ThePepperSkull]

I was also one of the lower bidders on this (it went for a LOT more than I thought it would. Am I missing something? Anyway probably not the best place here to inquire about prices but it shocked me how much it ended up going for).


I love older Sulu blades likt this. Said before that these types are my favourite kris, but I also concur with everyone else. The handle seems much much later, as does the asang-asang, which looks slightly off-place compared to where the original would have been.

Other than that I see no unusual or unique qualities to it. I think, like most of you, it most definitely could be a twistcore. Again, lovely piece.

[asomotif]

Maybe some bidders received better pictures showing a twistcore.
In that case the price would be explainable.

[Gustav]

I just think, the details of the base of blade are very well executed, the greneng (speaking in keris terminology) is rather well preserved, for if it really would be from around 1800.

[ThePepperSkull]

I KNEW this thread existed, it took me forever to find it again. I am now fortunate to find myself in ownership of the kris in question

Quite possibly one of the best quality kris I own in terms of craftsmanship of the blade. It turns out that it is a twistcore and I can echo everyone's sentiments when they say that the hilt and baca-baca are not original to the blade (Although it seems as though its current dress is a very old, very well done replacement).

What strikes me most about this piece is how differently it "feels" when held/handled. It seems to have the thickness and heftiness of a Moro Kris made later, however it is balanced closer to the hilt much like typical older Kris. I can also agree with Gustav in saying that it does seem very well-preserved and the base of the blade is very well executed. The lines and fullers are sharp, crisp, and smooth (Upon inspection it seems no one took a belt sander to smooth it out like you see with a lot of these twistcore bringback pieces. The laminations can be seen in person and the fullers outlining the twistcore seem to be deep and not worn down).

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...7&postcount=18

[CharlesS]

I absolutely agree with the above regarding the age of the hilt vs. the blade.

[David]

I am not sure what all the talk about the preservation of this blade is about. Moro kris were not routinely acid washed like their Indonesian cousins so it does not seem surprising to me at all that a relatively well taken care of blade from the early 19th or even late 18th century would look like this.
Pepper, have you considered giving this blade a light vinegar etch to bring out the twisted core pattern? It's a rather gentle process that would not damage the blade and it would certainly look cool if that pattern stood out more.

[Gustav]

Originally Posted by David

I am not sure what all the talk about the preservation of this blade is about.

...

[David]

Sorry Gustav, i'm missing your point. Care to expound past the "..."

[ThePepperSkull]

I perhaps should have elaborated when I was referring to its state of preservation. My apologies for vagueness, David. In retrospect it may have made my last post seem pointless.

You are right in that Moro Kris were not as routinely or as deeply etched as their cousins, the keris.

I cannot speak for others who have posted, but by "preserved well" I personally was referring to two things.

The first is the shape that we find these in when in the ownership of people who bring these pieces back with them from the Philippines. I have seen a lot of twistcore blades brought back that have been taken to a belt sander in order for it to have a more shiny finish, fitting more western tastes/sensibilities about what a blade ought to look like. As a result, not only is the pattern obscured but unfortunately what also occurs is a loss of steel and the original blade geometry. The fullers (more specifically the narrow fullers you typically see outlining the twistcore pattern going down the length of the blade) become more shallow or in worst-case scenario all but disappear. I cannot speak to how common this is in reality but I have encountered my fair share of these intentionally worn down pieces. Makes me sad every time I come across one.

This piece seems to have no evidence of this having occurred, as well as a minimal amount of spot corrosion due to neglect of (although there are some small spots) or lack of oiling/cleaning the blade.

Perhaps I chose my words unwisely. By "Preserved well", I meant "undamaged by owner ignorance and/or neglect"

If assuming this is how other (some, not all) twistcores originally were in terms of geometry (Although I admit this is a big assumption), it makes me wonder about some other pieces I own and the extent of their modification after being brought back as souvenirs (I have one that is particularly thin that I assume was taken to a belt grinder)

This in and of itself is difficult to explain, perhaps I will update this thread soon with illustrations elaborating about what I mean when I refer to its 'geometry'.

Originally Posted by David

Pepper, have you considered giving this blade a light vinegar etch to bring out the twisted core pattern? It's a rather gentle process that would not damage the blade and it would certainly look cool if that pattern stood out more.

I've been delaying doing so for long enough. Spunjer has graciously shared his etching method with me (it seems like ages ago when this occured), so I think it will see a vinegar etch soon enough