Polish sword with unusual provenance

ariel · 9th August 2007, 01:38 AM

Here it is.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=018
Perhaps, the Moderators can embed the pics and the desription permanently on this site. It is worth it!
This sword belonged to Colonel ( later, General) of Polish Army, Kaziemierz Schally. Before WWII he was in charge of the Military Advisory Board to the President of Poland. I do not know what happened to him later.
His son, Dr. Andrew Schally, has won Nobel Prize in endocrinology in 1977.
When I saw the sword, I called Dr. Schally ( he is a good colleague) and he confirmed that the sword belonged to his father. Unfortunately, he was not interested in buying it: he is over 80yo, just moved his lab from New Orleans to Miami, runs a huge operation there and is busy writing grants. Well, I could not apply any pressure and did not want to inquire about his father's subsequent fate ( he died ~ 1975).
Then I contacted Wolwiex, because I thought this sword belonged to a Polish museum. No luck: his museum has very strict policy where to buy and the money is limited.
So, folks, this is the story...
Isn't it interesting?

rand · 9th August 2007, 09:04 AM

Very interesting Ariel, thanks for sharing that storey. Polish arms and history have long facinated me, just have so much respect for what the Polish people have done in the past...

It all started when I first read about the winged Hussars!

rand

Bill M · 9th August 2007, 02:00 PM

This 1927 dated Sword is an extremely rare private sword of the german produktion Solingen.
The sword is in overall excellent condition. It has a massive ca. 32 inch long blade that is 1 and 3/8 inches wide at its widest point. Blade has on one side engraved a polish eagle and the scroll work, on the other side has: Honor I Ojczyzna engraved on approx. 3/4 the length of the blade. The sword is marked with a maker name Weyersberg & Co. Solingen. Original leather covered grip is all intact.
Dedicated on the grip: "Znakomitemu dowodcy plk. Kazimierzowi Schally w dniu pozegnania z pulkiem oficerowie 1 P.A.L.(C.[?]) 11.I.1927".

ariel · 9th August 2007, 03:43 PM

Thanks, Bill.
I do not think we see swords with such illustrious history very often. Ethnographic or not, it earned a place of distinction.

rand · 9th August 2007, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Thanks, Bill.
I do not think we see swords with such illustrious history very often. Ethnographic or not, it earned a place of distinction.

Hi Ariel,

Want you to know I have a lot of respect for you posts and read everyone I see..

Regarding Ethnographic my understanding is that it is a study relating to any culture. This is further clarified in the title "ethnographic arms and armor", so my perspective is we can discuss all cultures on a topic relating to arms and armor. Such as a discussion of Chinese textiles to assist in the dating of tibetan arms and armor or a history of a 20th century Polish sword as it relates to a particular owner and the history around it, that its available!

This Polish sword will be talked about again in fifty years, in a 100 years and so on, because of its inscription, who it was made for, the history of conflict during its usage, its history will only grow.....

Maybe a moderator can chime in on areas of discussion acceptable for this forum and clarify this for me.....

Thanks

rand

PS..... Hope you get in Ariel.....

Jim McDougall · 9th August 2007, 10:48 PM

I'm right with you Rand, I remember being completely fascinated with the Polish Winged Hussars, and have the greatest admiration and respect for these magnificent cavalrymen and the heritage they progenerated. It is most interesting that in the ranks of Eastern European cavalry were considerable numbers of horsemen from varying ethnic tribes and groups, and the very weapons they used had developed from or been influenced by many weapons which are distinctly regarded as ethnographic. In the Russian military, the shashka became a regulation weapon worn by Cossack regiments and in varying cases by other cavalry officers. The sabre used by cavalry regiments evolved from early forms of sabres carried of course in nomadic tribes across the Steppes, and through the centuries.

Naturally this perspective does stretch the idealized definition of the study of weapons classified as ethnographic, but as has been seen in other threads here, we often must make allowances that may enhance our overall understanding of various weapon forms.

In his book on Polish sidearms (I wish I had the copy here to quote), Nadolski wrote in his introduction a melancholy sentiment regarding a certain simple Polish sabre of troopers issue (the exact form shown here), and his fond memories of it. As he virtually dedicated his work to that simple sabre, he eulogized that it had sadly perished in the terrible flames of WWII.
I once had a close friend who had been in Poland at that time, and he too recalled his father who was in the Polish cavalry, and how passionately he regarded the sabre his father too had clearly cherished.

Such weapons deserve to be honored, just as the men who proudly carried them, and such recognition would seem to exceed any categoric classification.

Respectfully,
Jim

Jamaz · 10th August 2007, 04:05 PM

Actually, I'm not collecting "regular" sabres, but this is really, really outstanding item. I saw only few similar sabres.
Bad luck, 6 months ago I'd take it, but now I out of money because I've just bought another piece...

9th August 2007, 01:38 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Polish sword with unusual provenance Here it is. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=018 Perhaps, the Moderators can embed the pics and the desription permanently on this site. It is worth it! This sword belonged to Colonel ( later, General) of Polish Army, Kaziemierz Schally. Before WWII he was in charge of the Military Advisory Board to the President of Poland. I do not know what happened to him later. His son, Dr. Andrew Schally, has won Nobel Prize in endocrinology in 1977. When I saw the sword, I called Dr. Schally ( he is a good colleague) and he confirmed that the sword belonged to his father. Unfortunately, he was not interested in buying it: he is over 80yo, just moved his lab from New Orleans to Miami, runs a huge operation there and is busy writing grants. Well, I could not apply any pressure and did not want to inquire about his father's subsequent fate ( he died ~ 1975). Then I contacted Wolwiex, because I thought this sword belonged to a Polish museum. No luck: his museum has very strict policy where to buy and the money is limited. So, folks, this is the story... Isn't it interesting?

9th August 2007, 09:04 AM	#2
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Polish Sword Very interesting Ariel, thanks for sharing that storey. Polish arms and history have long facinated me, just have so much respect for what the Polish people have done in the past... It all started when I first read about the winged Hussars! rand

9th August 2007, 02:00 PM	#3
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	This 1927 dated Sword is an extremely rare private sword of the german produktion Solingen. The sword is in overall excellent condition. It has a massive ca. 32 inch long blade that is 1 and 3/8 inches wide at its widest point. Blade has on one side engraved a polish eagle and the scroll work, on the other side has: Honor I Ojczyzna engraved on approx. 3/4 the length of the blade. The sword is marked with a maker name Weyersberg & Co. Solingen. Original leather covered grip is all intact. Dedicated on the grip: "Znakomitemu dowodcy plk. Kazimierzowi Schally w dniu pozegnania z pulkiem oficerowie 1 P.A.L.(C.[?]) 11.I.1927". Attached Images

9th August 2007, 03:43 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Thanks, Bill. I do not think we see swords with such illustrious history very often. Ethnographic or not, it earned a place of distinction.

9th August 2007, 10:48 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,951	I'm right with you Rand, I remember being completely fascinated with the Polish Winged Hussars, and have the greatest admiration and respect for these magnificent cavalrymen and the heritage they progenerated. It is most interesting that in the ranks of Eastern European cavalry were considerable numbers of horsemen from varying ethnic tribes and groups, and the very weapons they used had developed from or been influenced by many weapons which are distinctly regarded as ethnographic. In the Russian military, the shashka became a regulation weapon worn by Cossack regiments and in varying cases by other cavalry officers. The sabre used by cavalry regiments evolved from early forms of sabres carried of course in nomadic tribes across the Steppes, and through the centuries. Naturally this perspective does stretch the idealized definition of the study of weapons classified as ethnographic, but as has been seen in other threads here, we often must make allowances that may enhance our overall understanding of various weapon forms. In his book on Polish sidearms (I wish I had the copy here to quote), Nadolski wrote in his introduction a melancholy sentiment regarding a certain simple Polish sabre of troopers issue (the exact form shown here), and his fond memories of it. As he virtually dedicated his work to that simple sabre, he eulogized that it had sadly perished in the terrible flames of WWII. I once had a close friend who had been in Poland at that time, and he too recalled his father who was in the Polish cavalry, and how passionately he regarded the sabre his father too had clearly cherished. Such weapons deserve to be honored, just as the men who proudly carried them, and such recognition would seem to exceed any categoric classification. Respectfully, Jim

10th August 2007, 04:05 PM	#7
Jamaz Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Lower Silesia, Poland Posts: 9	Actually, I'm not collecting "regular" sabres, but this is really, really outstanding item. I saw only few similar sabres. Bad luck, 6 months ago I'd take it, but now I out of money because I've just bought another piece...