German Executioner's sword Early 17TH century ?

[Cerjak]

German Executioner's sword Early 17TH century ?
O.L. 118 cm ; blade L. 92.5 cm; blade width at hilt 6.5 cm.
Any comment on it would be welcome

Best
Cerjak

[Jim McDougall]

Another interesting example Jean Luc!
These 'executioner' swords have had some pretty fascinating discussions over the past few years here. I think the most intriguing dilemma has been with regard to the three holes in the tips of the blades. It seems the most widely held has been that these were in essence with reference to the trefoil (dreipass) which it is said were placed in the blade to release evil which had been absorbed with the dispatch of criminals and such notion .

While considerable thought has been placed pragmatically toward these swords and their use and decoration, it seems that largely these were actually 'swords of justice' signifying that power as a bearing or sword of state. These were present among regalia and ceremonial items of various principalities, kingdoms and duchies in Europe. The actual use of these and to what degree has been debated, suggesting that by 17th century, this means of execution was not actually as widely employed as thought.
In various cases, the officials in these principalities when presiding in a formal setting would have had swords such as these in key visibility. With the Westphalian 'Vehmic courts', it is less clear how these might have been used or in place.

One such sword had these words inscribed:
"...when I raise this sword, I wish the sinner everlasting life.
The lords judge evil and I execute their judgement".
from "Tortures and Punishment"
Royal Armouries, p.19
With the Westphalian tribunals, it is unclear just how the condemned were actually dispatched, but by 'vigilante' type action or hanging most likely .
Whatever the case, the sword was a traditional vestige which conveyed the power of life and death held by these courts and their judges. The three hole symbolism was an embellishment to further dramatize these circumstances.

Some of the interesting examples have decoration and symbols such as the gallows and wheel (from 'breaking on a wheel') and various religious and judicial sorts of phrases and words. Many could be attributed to the secretive and esoteric tribunals in Germany known as the Vehdic courts or Free Judges.

This example seems quite original with the leather wrap still somewhat intact over the cord wrapped grip. It seems of the quite standard form of these swords with rebated blade, three holes near blade tip, and the gallows and other marks in latten.

[fernando]

Bonjour Jean-Luc,
The grip and pommel of your sword looks (to me) similar to one kept in the Schweizerischen Museum, said to be German from around 1600.
We can see that these blades may also be free of any allegoric decoration, which makes them be confused with two handed fighting swords as, while most of them do not have worthless pointed blades, they always have a cross guard, which purpose i fail to understand, unless an esthetical one.
We also see out there these blade ends with no (three) holes and also those with one plain single hole, said to be there for hanging the sword.
Obviously these swords, not serving a fighting purpose, hardly fit into weapons typology, although i wouldn't mind owning one in my little collection


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[NeilUK]

An excellent example, Jean-Luc, of a 'sword of justice' or executioner's sword. I think that it is more likely to have been an actual executioner's sword rather than a 'bearing sword' for two reasons: the inlaid design of the gallows and the very 'used' condition; a bearing sword would surely have been kept in better condition. As for Fernando's comment about the cross-guard: it could serve to prevent the user's hands from slipping down onto the blade, and also if the recipient of justice (the victim/criminal) is sentenced to 'die by the sword' then the instrument has to look like a sword! even if it is not a real weapon. Just my thoughts.
Best regards,
Neil

[Cerjak]

Thank you all for your comments ,
Yes I do think that this sword is a real weapon rather than a 'bearing sword'.
Fernando thank you for the scan.
Best
Cerjak

[Philip]

There are a relatively small number of extremely well-appointed versions of the classic Germanic / Central European "heading sword" -- with intricately engraved or etched blades, gilt-bronze guards and pommels, and wire braid wrapping with Turks' head knotting on the grips (of the sort common on civilian rapiers and similar swords). These, which tend to show no signs of repeated sharpening or extensive wear, were undoubtedly the "Swords of Justice" paraded before judicial officials as symbols of office. An outstanding example sold at Sothebys Summers Place (West Sussex), 7 Dec. 1998 (Lot 3050). More recently, a slightly more lavish one, with scabbard, was featured by Peter Finer at his Ilmington, Warwickshire gallery.

I agree that the example posted in this thread is almost certainly an executioner's implement, judging from its starkly utilitarian finish. Quite an impressive thing, clearly designed to do a specific task with great efficiency.

[Philip]

Headsman's swords with broad lenticular blades without points are often referred to as German/Austrian/Swiss, but there are examples which originate in neighboring, non-Germanic countries as well. Hermann Historica's Auction 49 (2005), featured a Hungarian example (Lot 258), mounted up on a hussar-saber-type hilt with an L-shaped knuckle guard. Its blade is engraved with two warrior figures out of classical mythology in a rather East European folk-art style, and with Latin inscriptions. I have seen a couple others similar to this elsewhere.

The Muzeum Narodowe in Kraków, Poland, has several with purely "Germanic" hilts (the generic form seen in this thread). I have handled a couple others in the museum's depot. A couple of the swords in this collection are named to Polish towns.

[Cerjak]

Thank you Philip for your comment.
There is also a nice collection of execution swords kept at the Gravensteen Museem Gent Belgium .Unfortunately I don’t have any more the pictures.
https://gravensteen.stad.gent/en/content/arms-museum-0
Best

Cerjak

[Jim McDougall]

It is great to have input from Philip on this, as it seems in discussions over the years he has placed most valuable insight into this esoteric topic, much of it gained from his research in locations key to much of the history.

As I continued my own research on this, I have found that many of these swords were indeed in use as 'heading swords' in German states and East European, some Slavic countries. Those which indeed served as 'instruments' in this grim purpose were usually quite austere, though often with the latten gibbet and wheel (of justice) inlaid in the blade.
It does seem, from some sources, noted that many of these swords when no longer 'in service' , actually became 'swords of justice' which were held up or paraded in judicial circumstances. It is suggested that this seems to have been the occasion when many of these were given the three hole application near the point.

This much disputed feature seems to elude any pragmatic solution, or even any other explanation, but the release of evil after its use in dispatch of criminals through the three holes (of the Holy Trinity) appears to be most widely held.

Many of these swords were finely embellished and decorated, and were probably intended as swords of justice as a court accoutrement from the beginning.

With these findings as well as with Philip's well observed notes it seems well supported that this is most likely an true heading sword as surmised.

[CSinTX]

Is anyone else suspicious of the patina on the blade on this piece?

[Cerjak]

Originally Posted by CSinTX

Is anyone else suspicious of the patina on the blade on this piece?

You always seem suspicious !

[CSinTX]

Originally Posted by Cerjak

You always seem suspicious !

With the prevalence of forgery, shouldn't we all be at all times?

This forum acts as an online library for years to come. I hate to call out possible issues but feel it is important to the integrity of the information that is stored here.

I appreciate all of the items you bring to the forum. Please don't take my opinion (that's all it is and maybe I'm wrong) as an attack. If you or anyone else ever see issue with an item I post, then please bring it up. Maybe you can point out something I had not considered. Personally, I feel it would be wrong to see a concern and not mention it. Others will come along in the future and see it and accept it as correct. If it is mentioned, then at least it gets them thinking on their own.

As to the patina on this blade, do you see how it appears in a "liquid like" pattern? As if it was applied as a fluid that dried and then proceeded to rust and pit? Does that seem natural?

[Foxbat]

I have to say that I had similar concerns, and I went back and forth a few times, trying to convince myself. Some elements look perfectly fine, but the sharp edges of the pits, especially coupled to the fairly intact decorations, do raise some questions.

However, on the plus side, considering these are not such scarce items, why would one go to this depth, when just a small amount of even patina (not hard to do) would bring it in line with what is more typically found?

At this point I am 70-30 in favor of giving it a pass.

[Jim McDougall]

This is an interesting development, and I am probably one of the worst at discerning these kinds of details in weapons posted. However, I think that it is always good to be guarded in authentication of weapons, and from photos it is by far the hardest.
I very much appreciate this attitude being in place, and agree with what CS notes. These notations not only keep our awareness in tune, but present instructional views which help all of us learn what to watch for...a most important factor for collectors especially.

I think Philip is probably one of the most discerning persons when it comes to evaluating and examining weapons, and by his omission of such concerns I would presume all to be well with this piece.

However, the character of the patination does seem unusual as noted in a number of areas. I am wondering if perhaps at some point in time there might have been some type of 'restoration' or preservation attempt which might lead to this character?
There seems to be good goethite presence on the pommel, and in noticing the latten markings on the blade......the 'chop' marks that are seen over the gibbet and other seem characteristic of authentic old markings. It does not seem this detail would be included in later applications.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... The actual use of these and to what degree has been debated, suggesting that by 17th century, this means of execution was not actually as widely employed as thought...

This being one perspective, Jim. Looking at records of executions by the sword in a city of a small European country, for one, between the XV and XVIII centuries, the numbers shown for the 1700's far from from being scarce.

Originally Posted by NeilUK

...As for Fernando's comment about the cross-guard: it could serve to prevent the user's hands from slipping down onto the blade, and also if the recipient of justice (the victim/criminal) is sentenced to 'die by the sword' then the instrument has to look like a sword! even if it is not a real weapon. Just my thoughts.

I wouldn't go for the first theory, Neil; the gesture applied in these 'non weapon' swords is not that of thrusting, hence no slipping down taking place. But i would well accept the second suggestion, as making good sense. Actually it is rather plausible that middle age executions were performed with ordinary swords, these 'fashionable' implements having not yet been developed.
Even in such later years these things were not compelled to follow period styling, as represented by an example kept in the Oporto Military Museum, which hosts the Araújo collection. See the swordish hilt and the face to face half moon symbols in the ricasso, a posture away from simbolizing the sordid purposes of these things.


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[Jim McDougall]

[QUOTE=fernando]This being one perspective, Jim. Looking at records of executions by the sword in a city of a small European country, for one, between the XV and XVIII centuries, the numbers shown for the 1700's far from from being scarce.


Fernando sorry I missed this, and not responding. Actually in further checking I found you are quite right, the numbers of cases of this form of capital punishment are far more prevalent in Europe than I had thought in the 18th century. It does seem they were situated more in the East European sectors but that may not be entirely accurate.

[Philip]

1. In some places and times, decapitation with a sword was reserved for condemned persons of noble lineage. Pre-revolutionary France was one example; commoners were put to death by hanging, breaking on the wheel, or other means. (French swordsmen were famed for their skill and their job was often handed down through generations, the Sansons were perhaps the most renowned). I'm sure the backstory of Anne Boleyn's unfortunate demise is well known to readers so I won't relate it again here. Interesting to note that in Switzerland, a land of non-royal government, this distinction was not made -- Peter Nied in "Scharf Gerichtet" (SCHWERT UND KLINGE, Vol. 13, 2011, pp 96-7) notes that the last Swiss witch executed with a sword met her end in 1782.

2. The different German states switched to the ax, or guillotine (Fallbeil) at various times during the 19th cent., the last beheading with sword was in Munich in 1854, and it was a public event (refer to above article). You can compare this with some oriental countries like Thailand and China, which continued that practice in public until the early 20th cent., and of course Saudi Arabia at present.

[Cerjak]

In the GRAVENSTEEN castle in Gent.
There is 7 Executioner swords in the GRAVENSTEEN castle but no one with holes on the tip.

[fernando]

Bonjour, Jean-Luc,
Probably (surely) the type to be hung upside down on the wall was not a fashion of this castle armoury .
I never realized that such quantity of this kind of swords was needed to do the job; sure those were busy days .

[Victrix]

Bit worrying to see one of the swords missing from its place on the board... I hope that it's not in use as we write this!

[fernando]

Most certainly .

[Cerjak]

Originally Posted by fernando

Bonjour, Jean-Luc,
Probably (surely) the type to be hung upside down on the wall was not a fashion of this castle armoury .
I never realized that such quantity of this kind of swords was needed to do the job; sure those were busy days .

Hi Fernando,

I Heard many other explanations concerning this holes and it seems that nobody has the same.

Best

Jean-Luc

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I think the most intriguing dilemma has been with regard to the three holes in the tips of the blades.

It was forbidden, to use an executioner's sword in a honest combat, because it was an impure/dishonest weapon.

The three holes are there to prevent a sharpening of the useless point.

This executioner's sword is real and had been fullfilled its purpose.


Roland

[fernando]

A good explanation Roland, although there are others; those not with a practical purpose but just a symbolic meaning...
And ... what about these swords with only one hole; such one said by some to be for purposes of hanging them on the armoury wall ?

[CutlassCollector]

Originally Posted by fernando

A good explanation Roland, although there are others; those not with a practical purpose but just a symbolic meaning...
And ... what about these swords with only one hole; such one said by some to be for purposes of hanging them on the armoury wall ?

This may be a bit far out.
But could the holes in the tip have been there to make a sound. You can imagine the moment of silence in the crowd just before the strike so an improved 'swish' noise may add to the drama.

CC

[fernando]

Listen to what may be heard through the grapevine about the holes:

- Preventing the tip from being reshaped into a mundane weapon of war ?
- Such holes would not likely prevent you from reshaping the blade into a piercing tip.

- That they were for adding weights to the tip for a heavier swing ?
- Certainly such adjustments would be unnecessary and clunky.

- Making the blade whistle for dramatic effect ?
- Is it not an implausible fantasy ?


- That they symbolically represent the Holly Trinity or are purely decorative ?
- Up to the extreme extent in that sunlight may be seen through the holes by the audience, implying the executioner is acting on behalf of God...

And the one i fancy more:

- There aren't zillions of these swords out there; and the ones with the three holes seem to be all German ... all from te same date range.
- Could one infer that they were all made by the same blade smith and the three holes were his maker's mark ?

[Roland_M]

Originally Posted by fernando

Listen to what may be heard through the grapevine about the holes:

- Preventing the tip from being reshaped into a mundane weapon of war ?
- Such holes would not likely prevent you from reshaping the blade into a piercing tip.

- That they were for adding weights to the tip for a heavier swing ?
- Certainly such adjustments would be unnecessary and clunky.

- Making the blade whistle for dramatic effect ?
- Is it not an implausible fantasy ?


- That they symbolically represent the Holly Trinity or are purely decorative ?
- Up to the extreme extent in that sunlight may be seen through the holes by the audience, implying the executioner is acting on behalf of God...

And the one i fancy more:

- There aren't zillions of these swords out there; and the ones with the three holes seem to be all German ... all from te same date range.
- Could one infer that they were all made by the same blade smith and the three holes were his maker's mark ?

The holes mainly the purpose to mark this sword as a tool. Because the sword (like its operator) was afflicted with "dishonor".

If one touches the sword or executioner, this causes to almost 100% that a man immediately losing his "honor".

To clean this dishonor of with a bath, unfortunately, helped nothing.

If the contact of the sword (or the contact of the executioner) was seen by other people and became a "village discussion", this almost always led to the exclusion from society for that person! And this for life time!

For the theory that the holes were made, to prevent making a combat sword from it, there is no evidence.
The holes also have nothing to do with trinity and no lead was pressed into the holes, to apply more power to the blow (an executioners-sword was already heavier than a combat sword, up to 3 kg). Probably just a tool mark in sense of a warning sign.

"- Making the blade whistle for dramatic effect ?
- Is it not an implausible fantasy ?"
I'm exactly with you.


Roland

[Cerjak]

dear Roland and Fernado

Thank you very much to have discuss about all the possible explanations.
It seems that now everything has been said about he holes.
Best

Jean-Luc

[fernando]

Completely !