My first yataghan

Emanuel · 24th February 2008, 05:19 PM

I finally got a yataghan, a turkish one in this case and at a great price. It lost one side of the bolster but otherwise in in good condition. The blade needs cleaning, but I'm afraid to damade the inlay. Will wd-40 and lemon juice have adverse effects on it?
I'm amazed by how thin the blade is, just 5mm. How thick do these get? If the yataghan is the root of the Kabyle flyssa I wonder why blade thickneses are so different. My small flyssa is a full cm thick at the base and spine.

Flavio has asked on another thread about whether the inlay on his yat might be gold. In my case I think it is brass as there's some bluing and tarnish. I will try to make out the inscriptions on the blade. Can anybody read them?

Thanks,
Emanuel

Emanuel · 24th February 2008, 05:32 PM

Here is an edited pic of the inscription, I can make out _861 at the lower right and kaf__ in the cartouce on the left.

Flavio · 24th February 2008, 05:36 PM

Hello Emanuel,

my yat is not tarnished, but could be well cleaned... even if I've got the sword more than a year ago and never the inlaid turned tarnished.

Thank you
Flavio

VANDOO · 24th February 2008, 05:39 PM

A NICE START ON YATAGAN

, UNFORTUNATE A PIECE IS MISSING BUT NOT UNCOMMON ON OLD ONES WHO HAVE SEEN SOME USE. THE GRIPS LOOK TO BE IN GOOD SHAPE AND THE BLADE IS NOT BAD SHOWING NO ACTIVE RUST AND NOT BEING OVER CLEANED. PERHAPS A GOOD WIPE DOWN WITH WD-40 ON A RAG AND A BIT OF MINERAL OIL ON THE HANDLE GRIPS WILL DO. A NICE DESIGN INLAYED INTO THE BLADE ,IS THERE A CARTOUCHE OR MAKERS MARK PRESENT?
I IMAGINE YOU COULD HAVE THE MISSING PART DUPLICATED IF YOU WERE NEAR THE MIDDLE EAST WHERE SUCH WORK IS STILL DONE LARGELY IN THE OLD FASHONED WAY. EASY TO FIND THOSE WHO DO SUCH WORK AS YOU JUST FOLLOW THE SOUND OF ALL THE HAMMERING OF METAL IN THE BAZZAR. THOSE MAKING THE LARGE METAL TRAYS AND VASE AND SUCH CAN LIKELY MAKE A PIECE FOR YOU OR DIRECT YOU TO THOSE WHO CAN.

Emanuel · 24th February 2008, 05:59 PM

Thank you both. Being in Toronto I am too far away from any traditional craftsman, but I figure I could take a jewellery-making course in time and eventually make a replacement myself. The cartouce or mark is visible on the last pic, on the left.

Emanuel

Norman McCormick · 24th February 2008, 08:37 PM

Hi Manolo,
Blade thickness on mine is 6mm, I've only got the one so can't give you much of a comparison re blade thicknesses. Some of the tarnish looks kind of greenish in your photos so I guess brass rather than gold.
Regards,
Norman.

kai · 25th February 2008, 12:53 AM

Hello Emanuel,

Quote:

Will wd-40 and lemon juice have adverse effects on it?

Any oil/wax suitable to protect blades should be fine.

Be careful with acids though, since removing rust also affects those crevices and can lead to loss of inlay; prolonged soaking can also eat away inlaid metal (except gold) which makes matters worse.

I'd take pains to polish the blade by hand as good as possible (also be gentle on the inlay since this is softer than steel) and do a quick etch with vinegar if you wish to have a look at the steel grain. Make sure to heat the blade thoroughly after etching to remove all traces of vinegar (no need to neutralize since acetic acid evaporates easily).

Regards,
Kai

TVV · 1st March 2008, 01:39 AM

Nice acquisition Manolo. I would call this yataghan Balkan, rather than Turkish, just to be more specific on its geographic origin (after all, almost all yatghans are Turkish). I read the year to be 1216, which would translate to 1801-1802 - makes sense. Some of these have twistcore damascus blades, and all have an inserted edge, so polishing and etching as suggested by kai might be worth it.

Emanuel · 1st March 2008, 01:52 AM

Thanks for the info Kai! And thanks for showing your yat Norman. The tarnish was actually bluish red. I've used a mild brass polishing creme and everything turned white. It appears that even the yellow was in fact tarnish and the wire is in fact white and therefore silver. The inscription is much clearer now and on the far right I can read 1219 = 1805 in the Gregorian calendar. I can't make out the rest, besides an 861 to the left of the date.

I've put up a better pic of the inlay if anyone can help with the translation I would be grateful.

Regards,
Emanuel

Zifir · 3rd March 2008, 01:10 PM

I think the date is 1216 not 1219.

The inscription is:

amel-i Ahmed sahib Mustafa

Emanuel · 4th March 2008, 01:28 AM

Hi Teodor, I hadn't seen your post for some reason. Both you and Zifir see 1216, so are we looking in the same place? The last four characters on the bottom right? I read the last one as a 9, 6 is like our 7 no?
Anyway, I'll defer to you both.

Thanks Zifir for the inscription. Manouchehr read the same on SFI and translated as "the work of Ahmed, the owner Mustafa".

As for the yataghan being Balkan, I had a suspicion this might be so. For the longest time I associated this type of ears to specifically Turkish, then Balkan came up and I was confused

I will clean the blade thoroughly and etch it to see what's hidden. I'll update pics when done.

Thanks to you both, and best regards,
Emanuel

- attached is a pic from www.omniglot.com and is what I based my reading on, is it correct?

Emanuel · 13th March 2008, 12:56 AM

After more cleaning and polishing, it turns out the fittings are all silver. It's too bad the bolster was broken like that.

TVV · 13th March 2008, 08:03 AM

Manolo,

I think I and Zifir might have been looking at the date before the clean picture. After you posted the better picture, I am more inclined to think it is a 9 rather than a 6. Which unless tha date helps you attribute the piece to a historical figure or an event, is not so important, and it is in all cases a nice early 19th century piece.

Regards,

Teodor

Emanuel · 14th March 2008, 03:39 AM

Hi Teodor,

The precise date is indeed not that important. I was just getting confused about Arabic numerals and wanted to be sure I was using the correct reference.

All the best,
Emanuel

24th February 2008, 05:19 PM	#1
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	My first yataghan I finally got a yataghan, a turkish one in this case and at a great price. It lost one side of the bolster but otherwise in in good condition. The blade needs cleaning, but I'm afraid to damade the inlay. Will wd-40 and lemon juice have adverse effects on it? I'm amazed by how thin the blade is, just 5mm. How thick do these get? If the yataghan is the root of the Kabyle flyssa I wonder why blade thickneses are so different. My small flyssa is a full cm thick at the base and spine. Flavio has asked on another thread about whether the inlay on his yat might be gold. In my case I think it is brass as there's some bluing and tarnish. I will try to make out the inscriptions on the blade. Can anybody read them? Thanks, Emanuel Attached Images

24th February 2008, 05:32 PM	#2
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Here is an edited pic of the inscription, I can make out _861 at the lower right and kaf__ in the cartouce on the left. Attached Images

24th February 2008, 08:37 PM	#6
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi Manolo, Blade thickness on mine is 6mm, I've only got the one so can't give you much of a comparison re blade thicknesses. Some of the tarnish looks kind of greenish in your photos so I guess brass rather than gold. Regards, Norman. Attached Images

1st March 2008, 01:52 AM	#9
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Thanks for the info Kai! And thanks for showing your yat Norman. The tarnish was actually bluish red. I've used a mild brass polishing creme and everything turned white. It appears that even the yellow was in fact tarnish and the wire is in fact white and therefore silver. The inscription is much clearer now and on the far right I can read 1219 = 1805 in the Gregorian calendar. I can't make out the rest, besides an 861 to the left of the date. I've put up a better pic of the inlay if anyone can help with the translation I would be grateful. Regards, Emanuel Attached Images

4th March 2008, 01:28 AM	#11
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hi Teodor, I hadn't seen your post for some reason. Both you and Zifir see 1216, so are we looking in the same place? The last four characters on the bottom right? I read the last one as a 9, 6 is like our 7 no? Anyway, I'll defer to you both. Thanks Zifir for the inscription. Manouchehr read the same on SFI and translated as "the work of Ahmed, the owner Mustafa". As for the yataghan being Balkan, I had a suspicion this might be so. For the longest time I associated this type of ears to specifically Turkish, then Balkan came up and I was confused I will clean the blade thoroughly and etch it to see what's hidden. I'll update pics when done. Thanks to you both, and best regards, Emanuel - attached is a pic from www.omniglot.com and is what I based my reading on, is it correct? Attached Images

24th February 2008, 05:36 PM	#3
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hello Emanuel, my yat is not tarnished, but could be well cleaned... even if I've got the sword more than a year ago and never the inlaid turned tarnished. Thank you Flavio

24th February 2008, 05:39 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	A NICE START ON YATAGAN , UNFORTUNATE A PIECE IS MISSING BUT NOT UNCOMMON ON OLD ONES WHO HAVE SEEN SOME USE. THE GRIPS LOOK TO BE IN GOOD SHAPE AND THE BLADE IS NOT BAD SHOWING NO ACTIVE RUST AND NOT BEING OVER CLEANED. PERHAPS A GOOD WIPE DOWN WITH WD-40 ON A RAG AND A BIT OF MINERAL OIL ON THE HANDLE GRIPS WILL DO. A NICE DESIGN INLAYED INTO THE BLADE ,IS THERE A CARTOUCHE OR MAKERS MARK PRESENT? I IMAGINE YOU COULD HAVE THE MISSING PART DUPLICATED IF YOU WERE NEAR THE MIDDLE EAST WHERE SUCH WORK IS STILL DONE LARGELY IN THE OLD FASHONED WAY. EASY TO FIND THOSE WHO DO SUCH WORK AS YOU JUST FOLLOW THE SOUND OF ALL THE HAMMERING OF METAL IN THE BAZZAR. THOSE MAKING THE LARGE METAL TRAYS AND VASE AND SUCH CAN LIKELY MAKE A PIECE FOR YOU OR DIRECT YOU TO THOSE WHO CAN.

24th February 2008, 05:59 PM	#5
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Thank you both. Being in Toronto I am too far away from any traditional craftsman, but I figure I could take a jewellery-making course in time and eventually make a replacement myself. The cartouce or mark is visible on the last pic, on the left. Emanuel

1st March 2008, 01:39 AM	#8
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,624	Nice acquisition Manolo. I would call this yataghan Balkan, rather than Turkish, just to be more specific on its geographic origin (after all, almost all yatghans are Turkish). I read the year to be 1216, which would translate to 1801-1802 - makes sense. Some of these have twistcore damascus blades, and all have an inserted edge, so polishing and etching as suggested by kai might be worth it.

3rd March 2008, 01:10 PM	#10
Zifir Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Istanbul Posts: 228	I think the date is 1216 not 1219. The inscription is: amel-i Ahmed sahib Mustafa

13th March 2008, 12:56 AM	#12
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	After more cleaning and polishing, it turns out the fittings are all silver. It's too bad the bolster was broken like that.

13th March 2008, 08:03 AM	#13
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,624	Manolo, I think I and Zifir might have been looking at the date before the clean picture. After you posted the better picture, I am more inclined to think it is a 9 rather than a 6. Which unless tha date helps you attribute the piece to a historical figure or an event, is not so important, and it is in all cases a nice early 19th century piece. Regards, Teodor

14th March 2008, 03:39 AM	#14
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hi Teodor, The precise date is indeed not that important. I was just getting confused about Arabic numerals and wanted to be sure I was using the correct reference. All the best, Emanuel