Forged in Fire - panabas

Battara · 5th May 2017, 04:49 AM

The other night I watched the show "Forged in Fire" on the History channel. The final challenge was to make a Moro panabas. It was great to see the Kali and scrims expert Doug Marcaida wield the 2 panabas. It was also cool to hear his comments on the feel of panabas' that he wielded.

If you are able to see it, do so. They include weapons from all over the world as the final challenge and they must be functional, placing the forged examples through brutal tests (and watching Doug wield them).

kronckew · 5th May 2017, 09:26 AM

yes, and swords and knives made in a race of 3 hrs under pressure in an excessively hot room, from weird and unknown materials are designed by them, like the originals to cut thru dried out cow thigh bones or elk antlers without chipping, bending or rolling the edge, and must be able to then cut thru a car in one swipe and punch holes in an abrams m1a2 tank. watching the 'tests' in slow motion reveal the expert edge alignment to hit the targets at the wrong angle is also instructive.

the tests are obviously designed to mimic conditions that edged weapons are used under in history and current life. (NOT)

i am surprised that some actually get thru the tests. you at least get doug occasionally commenting about the idiocy of the test, tho without actually condemning them. they are designed for entertaining the masses, not to test the blades. as a reasonably good martial artist, doug must be embarrassed at the stuff he has to spout from the script. he did at one point on the one i watched last night, refer to the elk antler chopping test of the west african ida swords they'd made as 'abuse'. the guy whose sword had a thicker profile and didn't slice as well and bent a bit won because the sharper one that cut stretched bungee cord better but chipped on the antler was a failure of the 'functional' tests.

i much prefer the 'iron and fire' show that appears here just after the comedy version called 'forged in fire'. he makes real knives, tomahawks and historically accurate black powder firearms, old school. and blows things up.

Rafngard · 5th May 2017, 01:24 PM

Because I collect and I study kali, more than one friend of mine has recommended the show. I tried a couple episodes.

Loved the smiths, loved Marcaida, loved the blades, hated the show.

Thanks,
Leif

Battara · 6th May 2017, 03:50 AM

Well it seems to be based on the food network show "Chopped", so..........

Philip · 6th May 2017, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Well it seems to be based on the food network show "Chopped", so..........

Well then, wasn't it appropriate that they whacked through a cow's thigh bone in one episode? Glad it was a dried-out one so presumably this bovine had previously met her demise by other means. Otherwise the BJP and PETA would be all over the producers of this show like stink on you-know-what.

kronckew · 6th May 2017, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip

Well then, wasn't it appropriate that they whacked through a cow's thigh bone in one episode? Glad it was a dried-out one so presumably this bovine had previously met her demise by other means. Otherwise the BJP and PETA would be all over the producers of this show like stink on you-know-what.

over here they cut the scenes where they cut animal parts, vegetation, or ballistic gel figures before 9pm.late night episodes they leave them in. might scare the young sheeple. i belong to the real PETA. (People Eating Tasty Animals).

the other PETA believes in scaring little children with gory comics accusing their parents of murder, then kills over 95% of the animals they take in for rehoming after promising to find them a new home. usually in the back of the van as they leave the home. usually dumping the carcasses in the nearest wheelie bin behind a fast food joint or supermarket. the ethical part of their name is not very ethical. they have none. they will cheerfully lie. they exist to garnish money.

Philip · 6th May 2017, 08:55 AM

I trust that you've also elevated chef Fergus Henderson's THE WHOLE BEAST: NOSE TO TAIL EATING to the degree of reverence accorded the four Gospels. BTW, have been looking for one of those "real" PETA T-shirts for quite awhile after noticing someone, at a distance and in passing, wearing one in a crowd.

I know all about the other PETA, and their penchant for scaring kids with their gory propaganda. They show up at parking lots to picket the Wienermobile when it makes its periodic goodwill tours of the US. And boy, how they traumatize those little kiddos who show up with Mom and Dad to sing the wiener song and partake of the iconic Oscar Mayer fronkfoyter! They even send their agitprop crew to my neighborhood farmers' market on Saturdays to scream at the fishmongers and butchers! We do our best to try drown them out with a chorus of pig and cow noises.

Lee · 6th May 2017, 01:25 PM

I guess that I must confess that watching Forged in Fire is one of my guilty pleasures. However, I tend toward liking blade smiths in general and this program often seems like merely a sadomasochistic exercise directed towards them. Martial artist Doug Marcaida's insights are entertaining and do seem relevant and worthwhile; the other panelists and the host are, at best, irritating. I have briefly discussed the show with accomplished blade smiths - briefly because they do not watch the show and suggest I follow their lead in that - and the general consensus is that there is very little if any upside and a tremendous amount of potential downside to any blade smith subjecting themselves to this 'competition.' Weird mystery metal worked against the clock and finalist assignments well beyond the scope of contestant's shop tooling do show the blade smith's resilience and perseverance and it is amazing that as many of their works are as good as they are.

As to animal rights activists, I'll admit that I am not a flesh eater, but these groups are largely guilty of promoting the view among our lawmakers that vilifying and prohibiting transfer of a 150 year old kris with an ivory pommel will somehow protect elephants in the wild today.

Spunjer · 6th May 2017, 02:41 PM

Wow, wasn't aware that this particular episode is already on air. Thanks for the head's up.
The producers actually approached me regarding this particular piece, and i would say i was honored to be of help. I'll watch it when i get home. Hope it wasn't butchered, lol.

Quote:

Good day Mr. Zambarano,

I hope this finds you well! I was forwarded your information from Mr. Bob Fulton who advised you may be able to assist with my inquiry below.

I am currently conducting research on Panabas swords*for a television program titled*Forged In*Fire*(History Channel).*

I am seeking images/footage of this sword, images of individuals using this sword as well as images of Filipino datu chiefs holding the sword. If you have images of the Moro Tribe, that may also prove to be helpful. These images would be used as part of a*short*segment that outlines a brief history*of the Panabas.

Any information you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you for taking the time to read this request; I look forward to your reply! I may be reached via this email, at your earliest convenience.

Warmest Regards,

Danielle

Battara · 6th May 2017, 04:21 PM

Good for you Ron!

I am aware of the limitations of the show, but I still find it interesting and entertaining.

Kmaddock · 6th May 2017, 05:45 PM

I really enjoy the show
I can sit down with my eight year old son, (he loves meat) and 6 year old daughter.
We discuss the weapons, appraise what is going wrong, discuss Damascus steel
(We even used a ham and cheese sandwitch to see the process for real)
Overall I feel it brings knowledge of making things by hand to a generation of screen watchers.
Having them in my workshop making plywood swords and trying them out in destructive testing has come from the show.
The delight when they recognise one of my sword types been produced on the show is great, we go up into my storage area and bring it down to discuss if it would win against the competitors.
I would like though to see more of the home shop productions as the 5 days are really condensed.

I have however never made a blade so I might not see all the incorrectness in what is going on.

Regards

Ken

kronckew · 6th May 2017, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Good for you Ron!

I am aware of the limitations of the show, but I still find it interesting and entertaining.

in spite of my comments i watch it too, better than a lot of the other garbage on at the times it is.

do wish they'd smarten up a bit and look for more historical accuracy rather than glitzy fantasy work (i shuddered at that 'winning' war hammer with the dragon bits that fell off).

the 'iron and fire' series is a LOT better and shows real and useful skills.

Kmaddock · 6th May 2017, 09:03 PM

Here are my two Forged in Fire fans with their favourite weapons

Lee · 7th May 2017, 02:57 AM

Well, these katars do not have grips too narrow for the hands of their appreciative wielders! Delightful picture!

kino · 7th May 2017, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

Wow, wasn't aware that this particular episode is already on air. Thanks for the head's up.
The producers actually approached me regarding this particular piece, and i would say i was honored to be of help. I'll watch it when i get home. Hope it wasn't butchered, lol.

I'll keep an eye out for your name in the credits.
Hopefully you got compensated for your efforts, don't forget to share the wealth brah!

Battara · 7th May 2017, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kino

Hopefully you got compensated for your efforts, don't forget to share the wealth brah!

Yeah!

CCUAL · 8th May 2017, 03:35 AM

The strength test.

kronckew · 8th May 2017, 06:25 AM

panabas abuse! surprised they didn't try to chop thru a springfield rifle barrel or two. after all, everybody knows that knives & swords are designed to cut thru plate armour and stay as sharp as a razor. chopping thru a few steel re-inforced concrete paving slabs would be another good test for them at FIF.

reminds me of the one where they shot a jacketed .45 acp at a katana-like object to 'test' it. failure if it didn't split the projectile without chipping. we all know katanas can cut thru a howitzer, so why not?

i'd like to see the bearded master of historically accurate swords test himself by catching a razor sharp sword stroke between his palms ala mythbusters.

Rafngard · 8th May 2017, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

panabas abuse! surprised they didn't try to chop thru a springfield rifle barrel or two. after all, everybody knows that knives & swords are designed to cut thru plate armour and stay as sharp as a razor. chopping thru a few steel re-inforced concrete paving slabs would be another good test for them at FIF.

reminds me of the one where they shot a jacketed .45 acp at a katana-like object to 'test' it. failure if it didn't split the projectile without chipping. we all know katanas can cut thru a howitzer, so why not?

i'd like to see the bearded master of historically accurate swords test himself by catching a razor sharp sword stroke between his palms ala mythbusters.

I think I cried a little reading this. Or maybe I threw up. Probably both.

Don't give them ideas.

Have fun,
Leif

silberschatzimsee · 8th May 2017, 08:47 PM

I really love that show. <3

It brought me to the idea to own a viking sword, by coinincidence there was also a more serious ulfberth documentary on tv so i googled up and found these forums somehow

Sadly i still dont own one but i am working hard on it. Last year i nearly purchased one but then it was too expensive. Retrospectively i really regret it somehow not going for it with a "who cares after" attitude.

Two weeks ago i also flipped my first weapon with a nice profit at a german auction house. So i am saving up money to buy something really spectular for my collection. I hope next November there will be great swords consigned in London

silberschatzimsee · 8th May 2017, 08:57 PM

Until then i am going to armouries and continue watching forged in fire. Hahah

Rick · 8th May 2017, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rafngard

I think I cried a little reading this. Or maybe I threw up. Probably both.

Don't give them ideas.

Have fun,
Leif

This one passed the bullet test and not edge on!
http://www.arscives.com/historysteel...s1/172-rb1.jpg

kronckew · 9th May 2017, 08:35 AM

so can a butter knife

edge on too. (note the soft lead unjacketed projectile.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Qy-Be2cDGQ

RobertGuy · 9th May 2017, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

so can a butter knife

edge on too. (note the soft lead unjacketed projectile.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Qy-Be2cDGQ

Don't tell the movie makers or we will be seeing even stranger types of viking scale armour.

Love Forged in Fire though.

kronckew · 9th May 2017, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertGuy

Don't tell the movie makers or we will be seeing even stranger types of viking scale armour.

Love Forged in Fire though.

.but...it's SO historical looking, just like this guy's historically accurate viking armour and long sword. he forgot the horns on the helmet tho. everyone knows vikings had horns. D

Kmaddock · 9th May 2017, 11:47 AM

Hi Kronckew,
I would confidently put my daughter with her Katar up against your pseudo warrior.
She may look all innocent and dressed in pink but when it comes to battle she is some tough cookie

regards
Ken

David · 9th May 2017, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

panabas abuse! surprised they didn't try to chop thru a springfield rifle barrel or two. after all, everybody knows that knives & swords are designed to cut thru plate armour and stay as sharp as a razor. chopping thru a few steel re-inforced concrete paving slabs would be another good test for them at FIF.

reminds me of the one where they shot a jacketed .45 acp at a katana-like object to 'test' it. failure if it didn't split the projectile without chipping. we all know katanas can cut thru a howitzer, so why not?

i'd like to see the bearded master of historically accurate swords test himself by catching a razor sharp sword stroke between his palms ala mythbusters.

I'm not sure i see the problem with this. They are not doing these tests on authentic antique weapons. They do them on the blades created by the contestants on the show to test their skills as smiths. These weapons are generally made quickly are are not generally great works of the smithing art. They have been created basically for entertainment purposes.

kronckew · 9th May 2017, 03:50 PM

true, if it were not on the history channel, the entertainment leaves a false sense of reality that demeans real historical studies of real historical weapons, their historical construction, use and capabilities.

mross · 9th May 2017, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

true, if it were not on the history channel, the entertainment leaves a false sense of reality that demeans real historical studies of real historical weapons, their historical construction, use and capabilities.

I agree, mostly, the show is for entertainment, that's how it gets ratings and pays bills. Nothing wrong with that at all. I wish them the best of luck as I like the show. As to the weapons themselves, I have seen quite a bit of skill. One contestant even did a pattern welded steel on his piece. Most of them are every bit as functional as the their representative antique weapon. The one's that are not, lose. As to the "tests" they are put through, entertaining yes, realistic for the most part, yes. The split the bullet test that I saw was not to see if it could split a bullet (although it made for some great visuals) it was to see if the heat treat was right and the sword could take a concentrated hit without breaking. The ones I saw did, which meant the smith got the heat treat right. The heat treat is everything when it comes to making functional tools. Lousy steel heat treated well will outperform great steel with a lousy heat treat. Ok back to lurking.

silberschatzimsee · 9th May 2017, 05:03 PM

On the history channel there is also this "ancient aliens bullsh*t", so its not a big drama that the tests in forged in fire are somewhat nonsense.

I also like the show becuase the contestants seem to shake hands to each others. Its not like the others where they are like dead enemys.

5th May 2017, 04:49 AM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	Forged in Fire - panabas The other night I watched the show "Forged in Fire" on the History channel. The final challenge was to make a Moro panabas. It was great to see the Kali and scrims expert Doug Marcaida wield the 2 panabas. It was also cool to hear his comments on the feel of panabas' that he wielded. If you are able to see it, do so. They include weapons from all over the world as the final challenge and they must be functional, placing the forged examples through brutal tests (and watching Doug wield them).

5th May 2017, 09:26 AM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	yes, and swords and knives made in a race of 3 hrs under pressure in an excessively hot room, from weird and unknown materials are designed by them, like the originals to cut thru dried out cow thigh bones or elk antlers without chipping, bending or rolling the edge, and must be able to then cut thru a car in one swipe and punch holes in an abrams m1a2 tank. watching the 'tests' in slow motion reveal the expert edge alignment to hit the targets at the wrong angle is also instructive. the tests are obviously designed to mimic conditions that edged weapons are used under in history and current life. (NOT) i am surprised that some actually get thru the tests. you at least get doug occasionally commenting about the idiocy of the test, tho without actually condemning them. they are designed for entertaining the masses, not to test the blades. as a reasonably good martial artist, doug must be embarrassed at the stuff he has to spout from the script. he did at one point on the one i watched last night, refer to the elk antler chopping test of the west african ida swords they'd made as 'abuse'. the guy whose sword had a thicker profile and didn't slice as well and bent a bit won because the sharper one that cut stretched bungee cord better but chipped on the antler was a failure of the 'functional' tests. i much prefer the 'iron and fire' show that appears here just after the comedy version called 'forged in fire'. he makes real knives, tomahawks and historically accurate black powder firearms, old school. and blows things up. Last edited by kronckew; 5th May 2017 at 11:01 AM.

6th May 2017, 01:25 PM	#8
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 913	Guilty Pleasure I guess that I must confess that watching Forged in Fire is one of my guilty pleasures. However, I tend toward liking blade smiths in general and this program often seems like merely a sadomasochistic exercise directed towards them. Martial artist Doug Marcaida's insights are entertaining and do seem relevant and worthwhile; the other panelists and the host are, at best, irritating. I have briefly discussed the show with accomplished blade smiths - briefly because they do not watch the show and suggest I follow their lead in that - and the general consensus is that there is very little if any upside and a tremendous amount of potential downside to any blade smith subjecting themselves to this 'competition.' Weird mystery metal worked against the clock and finalist assignments well beyond the scope of contestant's shop tooling do show the blade smith's resilience and perseverance and it is amazing that as many of their works are as good as they are. As to animal rights activists, I'll admit that I am not a flesh eater, but these groups are largely guilty of promoting the view among our lawmakers that vilifying and prohibiting transfer of a 150 year old kris with an ivory pommel will somehow protect elephants in the wild today.

6th May 2017, 09:03 PM	#13
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 543	Here are my two Forged in Fire fans with their favourite weapons Attached Images

8th May 2017, 03:35 AM	#17
CCUAL Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 76	The strength test. Attached Images

5th May 2017, 01:24 PM	#3
Rafngard Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Minneapolis,MN Posts: 340	Because I collect and I study kali, more than one friend of mine has recommended the show. I tried a couple episodes. Loved the smiths, loved Marcaida, loved the blades, hated the show. Thanks, Leif

6th May 2017, 03:50 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	Well it seems to be based on the food network show "Chopped", so..........

6th May 2017, 08:55 AM	#7
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	I trust that you've also elevated chef Fergus Henderson's THE WHOLE BEAST: NOSE TO TAIL EATING to the degree of reverence accorded the four Gospels. BTW, have been looking for one of those "real" PETA T-shirts for quite awhile after noticing someone, at a distance and in passing, wearing one in a crowd. I know all about the other PETA, and their penchant for scaring kids with their gory propaganda. They show up at parking lots to picket the Wienermobile when it makes its periodic goodwill tours of the US. And boy, how they traumatize those little kiddos who show up with Mom and Dad to sing the wiener song and partake of the iconic Oscar Mayer fronkfoyter! They even send their agitprop crew to my neighborhood farmers' market on Saturdays to scream at the fishmongers and butchers! We do our best to try drown them out with a chorus of pig and cow noises.

6th May 2017, 04:21 PM	#10
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	Good for you Ron! I am aware of the limitations of the show, but I still find it interesting and entertaining.

6th May 2017, 05:45 PM	#11
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 543	I really enjoy the show I can sit down with my eight year old son, (he loves meat) and 6 year old daughter. We discuss the weapons, appraise what is going wrong, discuss Damascus steel (We even used a ham and cheese sandwitch to see the process for real) Overall I feel it brings knowledge of making things by hand to a generation of screen watchers. Having them in my workshop making plywood swords and trying them out in destructive testing has come from the show. The delight when they recognise one of my sword types been produced on the show is great, we go up into my storage area and bring it down to discuss if it would win against the competitors. I would like though to see more of the home shop productions as the 5 days are really condensed. I have however never made a blade so I might not see all the incorrectness in what is going on. Regards Ken

7th May 2017, 02:57 AM	#14
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 913	Well, these katars do not have grips too narrow for the hands of their appreciative wielders! Delightful picture!

8th May 2017, 06:25 AM	#18
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	panabas abuse! surprised they didn't try to chop thru a springfield rifle barrel or two. after all, everybody knows that knives & swords are designed to cut thru plate armour and stay as sharp as a razor. chopping thru a few steel re-inforced concrete paving slabs would be another good test for them at FIF. reminds me of the one where they shot a jacketed .45 acp at a katana-like object to 'test' it. failure if it didn't split the projectile without chipping. we all know katanas can cut thru a howitzer, so why not? i'd like to see the bearded master of historically accurate swords test himself by catching a razor sharp sword stroke between his palms ala mythbusters. Last edited by kronckew; 8th May 2017 at 06:59 AM.

8th May 2017, 08:47 PM	#20
silberschatzimsee Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 90	I really love that show. <3 It brought me to the idea to own a viking sword, by coinincidence there was also a more serious ulfberth documentary on tv so i googled up and found these forums somehow Sadly i still dont own one but i am working hard on it. Last year i nearly purchased one but then it was too expensive. Retrospectively i really regret it somehow not going for it with a "who cares after" attitude. Two weeks ago i also flipped my first weapon with a nice profit at a german auction house. So i am saving up money to buy something really spectular for my collection. I hope next November there will be great swords consigned in London

8th May 2017, 08:57 PM	#21
silberschatzimsee Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 90	Until then i am going to armouries and continue watching forged in fire. Hahah

9th May 2017, 08:35 AM	#23
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	so can a butter knife edge on too. (note the soft lead unjacketed projectile.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Qy-Be2cDGQ Attached Images

9th May 2017, 11:47 AM	#26
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 543	Hi Kronckew, I would confidently put my daughter with her Katar up against your pseudo warrior. She may look all innocent and dressed in pink but when it comes to battle she is some tough cookie regards Ken

9th May 2017, 03:50 PM	#28
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	true, if it were not on the history channel, the entertainment leaves a false sense of reality that demeans real historical studies of real historical weapons, their historical construction, use and capabilities.

9th May 2017, 05:03 PM	#30
silberschatzimsee Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 90	On the history channel there is also this "ancient aliens bullsh*t", so its not a big drama that the tests in forged in fire are somewhat nonsense. I also like the show becuase the contestants seem to shake hands to each others. Its not like the others where they are like dead enemys.