What type of keris is this?

apolaki · 20th May 2016, 03:29 AM

Hello,

I have a keris that doesn't seem to have any pamor, can anyone tell me more information about it based on its style and form?

Thanks so much!

Kind regards,

apolaki

Henk · 20th May 2016, 08:12 AM

This is a javanese keris, Yogyakarta. The pamor will come out after the warangan treatment. This keris certainly has pamor.

Jean · 20th May 2016, 09:54 AM

This kris is from Solo and not Yogyakarta (at least the broken scabbard in ladrang style) and from the pic I am not sure that it has pamor

I attach the pic of a similar kris with pamor keleng (no apparent pamor).
Regards

Henk · 20th May 2016, 09:00 PM

Yes Jean, you're right Surakarta. My mistake in a hasty answer during bussy work this afternoon.

I think the blade has pamor. I've seen more blades in that condition that appeared in good pamor blades after warangan treatment. The pamor keleng is rather rare on javanese keris.

David · 20th May 2016, 09:38 PM

Anyone think the blade (not the sheath, of course) could be Maduran. I was told once that the gandik of Maduran keris often lean inwards as this one does.

apolaki · 21st May 2016, 04:29 AM

Sorry, I am having trouble uploading photos. Are these clearer for evaluating the keris's particularities? Thanks again!

Henk · 22nd May 2016, 03:52 PM

Yes, i'm convinced this is a pamorblade.

David, I cann't confirm that. Maybe Alan can tell us something about that?

Sajen · 22nd May 2016, 11:13 PM

I can see that the blade is most probable from laminated contruction but if the blade will show a clear pamor after cleaning and warangan I can't tell. Blade seems to be fairly old and I would like to see it cleaned and etched. Scabbard isn't original to the blade.

Regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 22nd May 2016, 11:58 PM

Yes, older Madura blades very often do have a gandhik that tends to slope inwards, however I've never seen a keris that I knew to be Madura that looks like this one, also, even though there are a lot of pics I'm not at all certain just how much inwards slope there is in this gandhik. Looking at the overall form, the cross section, the top of the gonjo, especially sirah cecak and buntut urang, to me this looks like it could be from anywhere along the North Coast and into East Jawa. Looking only at the sirah cecak it is more like something from old Surabaya & hinterland than anything else.

As for pamor, I cannot see anything that gives a strong indication of a distinct pamor, pamor sanak, maybe, but any sort of really noticeable contrast I doubt.

The problem with a blade like this is that we are trying to place point of origin using indicators that were developed for the classification of very high quality blades, and this blade is nowhere near high quality. Its not really governed by anything much in the way of rules, except what the maker was capable of and what would comfortably fit a wrongko from the time and place where it was made.

Jean · 23rd May 2016, 10:26 AM

I fully agree with the opinions from Alan and Sajen and would just add that the blade looks old but is not a masterpiece, and was probably significantly larger originally.

Regards

Green · 23rd May 2016, 03:46 PM

that's a strange extra hole beside the pesi... why and what is that for?

Sajen · 23rd May 2016, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green

that's a strange extra hole beside the pesi... why and what is that for?

It's for fixation of the gonjo, that it can't move.

Regards,
Detlef

apolaki · 23rd May 2016, 04:57 PM

Greetings all,

Thanks for the comments! How old would you all guess the blade is? What leads you to this conclusion?

Thanks again,

Apolaki

20th May 2016, 03:29 AM	#1
apolaki Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 160	What type of keris is this? Hello, I have a keris that doesn't seem to have any pamor, can anyone tell me more information about it based on its style and form? Thanks so much! Kind regards, apolaki Attached Images

20th May 2016, 09:54 AM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	This kris is from Solo and not Yogyakarta (at least the broken scabbard in ladrang style) and from the pic I am not sure that it has pamor I attach the pic of a similar kris with pamor keleng (no apparent pamor). Regards Attached Images Last edited by Jean; 20th May 2016 at 02:10 PM.

21st May 2016, 04:29 AM	#6
apolaki Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 160	Sorry, I am having trouble uploading photos. Are these clearer for evaluating the keris's particularities? Thanks again! Attached Images

22nd May 2016, 11:13 PM	#8
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,779	I can see that the blade is most probable from laminated contruction but if the blade will show a clear pamor after cleaning and warangan I can't tell. Blade seems to be fairly old and I would like to see it cleaned and etched. Scabbard isn't original to the blade. Regards, Detlef Last edited by Sajen; 23rd May 2016 at 12:43 AM.

23rd May 2016, 10:26 AM	#10
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	I fully agree with the opinions from Alan and Sajen and would just add that the blade looks old but is not a masterpiece, and was probably significantly larger originally. Regards Last edited by Jean; 23rd May 2016 at 12:46 PM.

20th May 2016, 08:12 AM	#2
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	This is a javanese keris, Yogyakarta. The pamor will come out after the warangan treatment. This keris certainly has pamor.

20th May 2016, 09:00 PM	#4
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Yes Jean, you're right Surakarta. My mistake in a hasty answer during bussy work this afternoon. I think the blade has pamor. I've seen more blades in that condition that appeared in good pamor blades after warangan treatment. The pamor keleng is rather rare on javanese keris.

20th May 2016, 09:38 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Anyone think the blade (not the sheath, of course) could be Maduran. I was told once that the gandik of Maduran keris often lean inwards as this one does.

22nd May 2016, 03:52 PM	#7
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Yes, i'm convinced this is a pamorblade. David, I cann't confirm that. Maybe Alan can tell us something about that?

22nd May 2016, 11:58 PM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Yes, older Madura blades very often do have a gandhik that tends to slope inwards, however I've never seen a keris that I knew to be Madura that looks like this one, also, even though there are a lot of pics I'm not at all certain just how much inwards slope there is in this gandhik. Looking at the overall form, the cross section, the top of the gonjo, especially sirah cecak and buntut urang, to me this looks like it could be from anywhere along the North Coast and into East Jawa. Looking only at the sirah cecak it is more like something from old Surabaya & hinterland than anything else. As for pamor, I cannot see anything that gives a strong indication of a distinct pamor, pamor sanak, maybe, but any sort of really noticeable contrast I doubt. The problem with a blade like this is that we are trying to place point of origin using indicators that were developed for the classification of very high quality blades, and this blade is nowhere near high quality. Its not really governed by anything much in the way of rules, except what the maker was capable of and what would comfortably fit a wrongko from the time and place where it was made.

23rd May 2016, 03:46 PM	#11
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 312	that's a strange extra hole beside the pesi... why and what is that for?

23rd May 2016, 04:57 PM	#13
apolaki Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 160	Greetings all, Thanks for the comments! How old would you all guess the blade is? What leads you to this conclusion? Thanks again, Apolaki