Export of iron from SE Asia

Jens Nordlunde · 8th February 2005, 05:31 PM

Export of iron/wootz from Sri Lanka and India has been well known and documented; going back for more than two thousand years, some even say twenty five hundred years.
Does anyone know if there also was an export of iron from places like Sumatra and Indonesia?
If yes, where to?

Jens Nordlunde · 9th February 2005, 05:46 PM

Doesn't anyone know, or is the question of no interest?

Jens

Andrew · 9th February 2005, 07:55 PM

Jens,

I don't have any idea, and I'm hoping someone who does will come forward who does. Definitely not a lack of interest here.

Andrew

Mark · 9th February 2005, 08:55 PM

I only know about continental Southeast Asia. Small amounts of locally mined iron were used in times past, and some imported from China. But after the establishment of Europeans in the area, particularly the British in Burma in the mid-late 19th century, iron and steel were imported from Europe. No export to speak of. Tin, silver and gold were (and are) the major metal exports of the region.

Rick · 9th February 2005, 09:12 PM

Here's a tidbit .
http://www.einaudi.cornell.edu/South...tem.asp?id=934

Jens Nordlunde · 9th February 2005, 10:34 PM

Thank you for your mails - this is rather interesting. There have seem to no export of iron from the islands from where the kerise's were made, only from Sri Lanka and India.

Regards

Jens

Jim McDougall · 10th February 2005, 12:10 AM

Hi Jens,
I think this is an outstanding question, and I cannot recall any references that would suggest export of such raw materials from these regions. As you have noted, the smelted ingots of metal from Sri Lanka and India are well known in history as sources to major sword blade centers. It seems even in ancient times the metal resources for sword blades came from these regions. I will have to search the reference, but I believe I once saw reference to 'Chinese' steel...but I would think that may refer to the Sri Lankan product which may have been transported via trade routes referred to generally as 'China'. In what is now Viet Nam, the region of Cochin was often referred to as 'Cochin China' in the 19th century, possibly earlier ( Dha guys help me out on this

.

As Mark has said, it would seem that Indonesian and Malaysian regions would have relied on imports primarily for weapons production.However,the reference that Rick has posted on prehistoric iron production in Borneo might put some interesting perspective on this.

Again, I think this is a fascinating question and I hope we can get some more responses with more information.

Best regards,
Jim

rahman · 10th February 2005, 04:43 AM

I believe nickel-based iron was exported throughout Southeast Asia from the province of Luwu in Sulawesi. This iron was popular in Java and sumatera, as well as some parts of Malaya until the early 20th Century when European steel and scrap metal with high nickel content was used.

Pls do a search on the old forums. You'll probably find some good info there.

empu kumis · 10th February 2005, 11:44 PM

This could be interesting.

Bulbeck, D. and Caldwell, I. 2000. The land of iron: The historical archaeology of Luwu and the Cenrana Valley. Results of the Origin of Complex Society in South Sulawesi Project (OXIS). Hull: University of Hull Centre for South-East Asian Studies and Canberra: Australian National University School of Archaeology Anthropology.

Jens Nordlunde · 11th February 2005, 10:07 AM

Rahman, what you write seems to be export within the area, maybe they did not have so much iron.
I saw some where that they imported nickel from Solingen, and that this nickel should have given good results, as it was cleaner than what they could get from other places. Unfortunately I have forgotten where I saw it.

Empu kumis, have you read the book? It yes, can you tell us more about it?

Jens

Mark · 4th March 2005, 12:11 AM

I have found some hard information on this question in Bronson, "Patterns in the Early Southeast Asian Metals Trade," in Early Metallurgy, Trade and Urban Centres in Thailand and Southeast Asia, White Lotus, Bangkok, 1992.

Bronson has a lot to say on this subject, but to summarize, SEA generally was a very minor player in the iron business, or was virtually out of the game entirely. Island SEA was (and is) very poor in iron deposits, and never exploited in any significant way the deposits it had. Thus, all of its iron was imported from India and China (and maybe a little bit in certain periods from Thailand).

As far as continental SEA goes, Burma had the largest deposits and at times was a net exporter to nearby countries, as were Thailand, Laos and Cambodia. Burma's iron production, when it was active, was mostly supplying just its own needs. However, none of these countries never fully or consistently exploited their iron resources.

The reason that iron production was so limited in SEA was that China was a massive producer and exporter of inexpensive iron, and so there was no economic advantage to local production. Plus, China's spelting technology was more efficient and advanced than that of SEA. To the extent there was iron production in continental SEA is was essentially a very intermittant, small-scale afair for local consumption. With the establishment of European trade, Europe also became an important source for iron and steel.

Copper and tin were the big metal industries in SEA, and silver to a lesser extent.

Mark · 4th March 2005, 12:12 AM

I forgot -- Japan also was a significant exporter of iron to SEA.

Andrew · 4th March 2005, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Bowditch

I forgot -- Japan also was a significant exporter of iron to SEA.

I'm suprised learn this, Mark. I assumed that, given the poor quality of Japanese iron "sand", and the laborious tecniques employed to make homogenous steel, that exporting iron wouldn't be a big industry. Did they export refined iron, or just ore?

Mark · 4th March 2005, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

I'm suprised learn this, Mark. I assumed that, given the poor quality of Japanese iron "sand", and the laborious tecniques employed to make homogenous steel, that exporting iron wouldn't be a big industry. Did they export refined iron, or just ore?

It does seem unusual, but the records are there. Bronson's conclusion is that the Japanese were simply very efficient in their smelting methods and were able to produce quantities of iron (and steel) more cheaply than local SEA producers. China was very much the dominant producer, but Japan was a net exporter, so they were at least producing a surplus.

Jens Nordlunde · 4th March 2005, 03:40 PM

Hi Mark,

Thank you for the information, it is interesting to notice, that not only did the Indians export iron, most likely wootz ingots, to countries to the west, as far as Africa, but they also had an export to the east, which is not common knowledge.
Another export route was far more north, in Turkmenistan. In a desert town, in an oasis on the Silk Road, called Merv/Marv, ingots were produced, and sold to the passing merchants. They had neither any iron ore nor any wood, so both had to be ‘imported’, the wood/charcoal from Afghanistan and the ore from further north sailed down, close to Merv on the rivers. You can read more in an article Ann Feuerbach has written in Minerva number 13. issue 4, 2002.

Jens

Bill · 8th March 2005, 07:16 PM

Have been trying to find info on this same subject, looking in the period of 1300-1600. Sumatra & Borneo had iron mined in this period but unlikely for export. Before 1511, Malacca had Chinese, Sulawesi, & Burma iron for sale. Malacca also had many Indian & Arab traders, so concidering how valuable iron was, I would think it would have had any excess iron from any area sold there. From what I read, there was 2 types of Chinese iron. The type they exported was brittle and poor quality to made weapons. The nickeliferous iron from Sulawesi is claimed to have been perfect for mixing with the Chinese iron.

empu kumis · 16th March 2005, 11:09 AM

Hello Kerislovers,

it would be better to ask for the trade of iron not only for export. Therefore the following site is interresting. So we have some facts:

http://www.maritimeasia.ws/topic/iron.html

No facts but stories:

i was told in Java for maby wootzsteel. I have seen a wootzlike keris blade and so far i remember the pamor was called "urab uraban". But i cant give any proof.

empu kumis

Jens Nordlunde · 30th March 2005, 05:09 PM

So far the discussion has mostly been on export of ingots from south of India and Sri Lanka, I have lately learned from Ann Feuerbach that the caravans travelling on the Silk Road also brought ingots to Arabia. I have been reading about it in several books, one being ‘Persian Steel’ by James Allan and Brian Gilmour, and latest, in a newly acquired book, The Arms and Armour of Arabia, in the 18th-19th and 20th Centuries by Robert Elgood, in Appendix II, ‘Damascus sword manufacture’ he discus the importance if Damascus as a centre for sword making. Arguing that Damascus was rather known for being a centre of sword trade than for sword making, not that there were no sword smith’s in Damascus, but not enough to make it a centre for sword making – he also mentions many other places, known for their quality swords. On page 104 he writes, ‘Contemporary references to weapons in Syria reinforce the view that Indian swords dominated the market’.

I have, in other places, seen hints and references to export of blades from India, but I have never before seen reference to, that the Indian’s should have exported so many blades that they dominated a market as big as the Syrian, which must have been big at the time. When was ‘at the time’? Robert Elgood does not specify it, but from the text I gather, it is from before the Europeans settled in India

So now we have an export of blades and ingots to the west, but what about to the east? We know, from stone sculptures, that kerises were used in the south of India; did they also export keris blades to the east?

The export of blades to the west alone means, that the blade production in south and west India must have been intensive, as they, not only could equip their own armies with blades, but they also had a very big export of them, if they could dominate the Arabian market. This also means, that many of the blades we normally consider being Persian, may very well be made in India, and on arrival decorated in Persia – if that too was not made in India.

Kiai Carita · 26th April 2005, 09:54 PM

[QUOTE=Jens Nordlunde]

So now we have an export of blades and ingots to the west, but what about to the east? We know, from stone sculptures, that kerises were used in the south of India; did they also export keris blades to the east?

I have just obtained an Indonesian Ensiklopedi Keris that says there are no references to keris in India. What stone sculpture are you refering to? Do you have pictures, please?

According to history novelist Pramudya Ananta Toer in the Hindu period Java imported iron from a place called Wullungga which he thinks is Africa. There are many different types of iron in Javanese kerisology, including Cambodia Iron, Indian iron, Chinese iron and also iron from Luwu in Sulawesi.

Rick · 26th April 2005, 10:17 PM

Welcome to the forum Kiai , I believe that Jens was referring to non-keris blades in his post .

On another note I have often heard of 'Sheffield keris' being exported from England to Indonesia / Philippines ; I have yet to see one though .

/Enjoyed Toer's Buru Quartet , very moving and enlightening to a 20th c. Westerner .

Jens Nordlunde · 27th April 2005, 10:04 AM

Hi Kiai,

In the book 'Hindu Arms and Rituals' by Robert Elgood you can see stone sculptures armed with a dagger on page 122-23. Due to copyright I can't show the pictures, but the text under one of the pictures reads: Stone sculpture of Raghunatha Nayaka (1600-34) with sword and kris, in the Rama Temple, Kumbakonam, built c. 1610.

rahman · 27th April 2005, 10:59 AM

Wullungga? There's a place called Wollongong in Australia, and it's an Aboroginal name - long before the coming of the British.

One possibility is that there is not enough iron in SEAsia to export. Even when making keris in the old days, people have to use the iron 'pebbles' along the beaches. I guess the scarcity of iron makes the keris more precious, and partly explains the reverence for it.

Jens Nordlunde · 27th April 2005, 11:38 AM

Hi Rahman,

I don't know it they had iron in the place you mention in Australia, but Australia sounds more reasonable than an African import, as iron was to be had from countries much closer than Africa.

I don't know about the rest of SEAsia, but in India they had enough iron, not only for their own use, but they also exported hundreds of tons westwards each year, from the towns in the south. As the Indians also traded eastward, it is likely that the also exported iron to the rest of SEAsia. Another thing is, that the Indian iron can have been so expencive, that many had to get the iron they needed in other ways.

Kiai Carita · 28th April 2005, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Hi Kiai,

In the book 'Hindu Arms and Rituals' by Robert Elgood you can see stone sculptures armed with a dagger on page 122-23. Due to copyright I can't show the pictures, but the text under one of the pictures reads: Stone sculpture of Raghunatha Nayaka (1600-34) with sword and kris, in the Rama Temple, Kumbakonam, built c. 1610.

Thank you Jens, I have never heard of Robert Elgood. Does the picture of the dagger have a ganja? Does the blade bow forward? Was the temple built in 1610? Was the keris there an influence from Java rather than the other way around?

Java legends remember Aji Saka coming from Hindustan and releasing Java from the canibalism of Dewata Cengkar. Aji Saka was said to have brought a keris with him. Java kerisologi has the origin of the keris in the times of the gods. I think the name of the first Mpu was Mpu Angganjali meaning the Owner of Knowledge (Mpu) who Put The Ganja on.

Salam keris

Ian · 28th April 2005, 02:03 PM

Rahman:

Wollongong is on the east coast of Australia, just south of the major city of Sydney. By sea, that would be roughly 2,000 miles from Indonesia, and even further from other areas of SE Asia. Probably not very likely that this was a source of iron, and I'm not sure there would be much iron there anyway. Most of the iron ore in Austalia is mined a hundred miles or more inland. If iron ore was being mined in Australia before the arrival of Europeans, the northwestern areas of the country would be more likely, where there are iron ore deposits.

Ian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rahman

Wullungga? There's a place called Wollongong in Australia, and it's an Aboroginal name - long before the coming of the British.

Kiai Carita · 28th April 2005, 09:18 PM

The historian Denis Lombard in his books Nusa Jawa Silang Budaya puts forward the theory that the Java keris is small because of the lack of iron in Java. However there has been an experiment conducted in Cilacap and Solo to try and make a keris using Cilacap iron sand melted down using traditional technologies. The experoiment was to ask the question whether or not the java Mpu could make keris using iron from Java even if there is no othe evidence from literature or legend to support that belief. The experimenters succeded in making a keris with pamor resembling pamor Luwu. As for Wullungga in Pramoedya's book 'Arus Balik' I don't think refers to Wollongong in NSW.

Salam Keris

8th February 2005, 05:31 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Export of iron from SE Asia Export of iron/wootz from Sri Lanka and India has been well known and documented; going back for more than two thousand years, some even say twenty five hundred years. Does anyone know if there also was an export of iron from places like Sumatra and Indonesia? If yes, where to?

26th April 2005, 09:54 PM	#19
Kiai Carita Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 91	Iron and Java Keris [QUOTE=Jens Nordlunde] So now we have an export of blades and ingots to the west, but what about to the east? We know, from stone sculptures, that kerises were used in the south of India; did they also export keris blades to the east? I have just obtained an Indonesian Ensiklopedi Keris that says there are no references to keris in India. What stone sculpture are you refering to? Do you have pictures, please? According to history novelist Pramudya Ananta Toer in the Hindu period Java imported iron from a place called Wullungga which he thinks is Africa. There are many different types of iron in Javanese kerisology, including Cambodia Iron, Indian iron, Chinese iron and also iron from Luwu in Sulawesi.

28th April 2005, 09:18 PM	#26
Kiai Carita Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 91	Iron for Keris The historian Denis Lombard in his books Nusa Jawa Silang Budaya puts forward the theory that the Java keris is small because of the lack of iron in Java. However there has been an experiment conducted in Cilacap and Solo to try and make a keris using Cilacap iron sand melted down using traditional technologies. The experoiment was to ask the question whether or not the java Mpu could make keris using iron from Java even if there is no othe evidence from literature or legend to support that belief. The experimenters succeded in making a keris with pamor resembling pamor Luwu. As for Wullungga in Pramoedya's book 'Arus Balik' I don't think refers to Wollongong in NSW. Salam Keris

9th February 2005, 05:46 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Doesn't anyone know, or is the question of no interest? Jens

9th February 2005, 07:55 PM	#3
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Jens, I don't have any idea, and I'm hoping someone who does will come forward who does. Definitely not a lack of interest here. Andrew

9th February 2005, 08:55 PM	#4
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	I only know about continental Southeast Asia. Small amounts of locally mined iron were used in times past, and some imported from China. But after the establishment of Europeans in the area, particularly the British in Burma in the mid-late 19th century, iron and steel were imported from Europe. No export to speak of. Tin, silver and gold were (and are) the major metal exports of the region.

9th February 2005, 09:12 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Here's a tidbit . http://www.einaudi.cornell.edu/South...tem.asp?id=934

9th February 2005, 10:34 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Thank you for your mails - this is rather interesting. There have seem to no export of iron from the islands from where the kerise's were made, only from Sri Lanka and India. Regards Jens

10th February 2005, 12:10 AM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Hi Jens, I think this is an outstanding question, and I cannot recall any references that would suggest export of such raw materials from these regions. As you have noted, the smelted ingots of metal from Sri Lanka and India are well known in history as sources to major sword blade centers. It seems even in ancient times the metal resources for sword blades came from these regions. I will have to search the reference, but I believe I once saw reference to 'Chinese' steel...but I would think that may refer to the Sri Lankan product which may have been transported via trade routes referred to generally as 'China'. In what is now Viet Nam, the region of Cochin was often referred to as 'Cochin China' in the 19th century, possibly earlier ( Dha guys help me out on this . As Mark has said, it would seem that Indonesian and Malaysian regions would have relied on imports primarily for weapons production.However,the reference that Rick has posted on prehistoric iron production in Borneo might put some interesting perspective on this. Again, I think this is a fascinating question and I hope we can get some more responses with more information. Best regards, Jim

10th February 2005, 04:43 AM	#8
rahman Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 84	I believe nickel-based iron was exported throughout Southeast Asia from the province of Luwu in Sulawesi. This iron was popular in Java and sumatera, as well as some parts of Malaya until the early 20th Century when European steel and scrap metal with high nickel content was used. Pls do a search on the old forums. You'll probably find some good info there.

10th February 2005, 11:44 PM	#9
empu kumis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 17	This could be interesting. Bulbeck, D. and Caldwell, I. 2000. The land of iron: The historical archaeology of Luwu and the Cenrana Valley. Results of the Origin of Complex Society in South Sulawesi Project (OXIS). Hull: University of Hull Centre for South-East Asian Studies and Canberra: Australian National University School of Archaeology Anthropology.

11th February 2005, 10:07 AM	#10
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Rahman, what you write seems to be export within the area, maybe they did not have so much iron. I saw some where that they imported nickel from Solingen, and that this nickel should have given good results, as it was cleaner than what they could get from other places. Unfortunately I have forgotten where I saw it. Empu kumis, have you read the book? It yes, can you tell us more about it? Jens

4th March 2005, 12:11 AM	#11
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	I have found some hard information on this question in Bronson, "Patterns in the Early Southeast Asian Metals Trade," in Early Metallurgy, Trade and Urban Centres in Thailand and Southeast Asia, White Lotus, Bangkok, 1992. Bronson has a lot to say on this subject, but to summarize, SEA generally was a very minor player in the iron business, or was virtually out of the game entirely. Island SEA was (and is) very poor in iron deposits, and never exploited in any significant way the deposits it had. Thus, all of its iron was imported from India and China (and maybe a little bit in certain periods from Thailand). As far as continental SEA goes, Burma had the largest deposits and at times was a net exporter to nearby countries, as were Thailand, Laos and Cambodia. Burma's iron production, when it was active, was mostly supplying just its own needs. However, none of these countries never fully or consistently exploited their iron resources. The reason that iron production was so limited in SEA was that China was a massive producer and exporter of inexpensive iron, and so there was no economic advantage to local production. Plus, China's spelting technology was more efficient and advanced than that of SEA. To the extent there was iron production in continental SEA is was essentially a very intermittant, small-scale afair for local consumption. With the establishment of European trade, Europe also became an important source for iron and steel. Copper and tin were the big metal industries in SEA, and silver to a lesser extent.

4th March 2005, 12:12 AM	#12
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	I forgot -- Japan also was a significant exporter of iron to SEA.

4th March 2005, 03:40 PM	#15
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Mark, Thank you for the information, it is interesting to notice, that not only did the Indians export iron, most likely wootz ingots, to countries to the west, as far as Africa, but they also had an export to the east, which is not common knowledge. Another export route was far more north, in Turkmenistan. In a desert town, in an oasis on the Silk Road, called Merv/Marv, ingots were produced, and sold to the passing merchants. They had neither any iron ore nor any wood, so both had to be ‘imported’, the wood/charcoal from Afghanistan and the ore from further north sailed down, close to Merv on the rivers. You can read more in an article Ann Feuerbach has written in Minerva number 13. issue 4, 2002. Jens

8th March 2005, 07:16 PM	#16
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Have been trying to find info on this same subject, looking in the period of 1300-1600. Sumatra & Borneo had iron mined in this period but unlikely for export. Before 1511, Malacca had Chinese, Sulawesi, & Burma iron for sale. Malacca also had many Indian & Arab traders, so concidering how valuable iron was, I would think it would have had any excess iron from any area sold there. From what I read, there was 2 types of Chinese iron. The type they exported was brittle and poor quality to made weapons. The nickeliferous iron from Sulawesi is claimed to have been perfect for mixing with the Chinese iron.

16th March 2005, 11:09 AM	#17
empu kumis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 17	Hello Kerislovers, it would be better to ask for the trade of iron not only for export. Therefore the following site is interresting. So we have some facts: http://www.maritimeasia.ws/topic/iron.html No facts but stories: i was told in Java for maby wootzsteel. I have seen a wootzlike keris blade and so far i remember the pamor was called "urab uraban". But i cant give any proof. empu kumis

30th March 2005, 05:09 PM	#18
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	So far the discussion has mostly been on export of ingots from south of India and Sri Lanka, I have lately learned from Ann Feuerbach that the caravans travelling on the Silk Road also brought ingots to Arabia. I have been reading about it in several books, one being ‘Persian Steel’ by James Allan and Brian Gilmour, and latest, in a newly acquired book, The Arms and Armour of Arabia, in the 18th-19th and 20th Centuries by Robert Elgood, in Appendix II, ‘Damascus sword manufacture’ he discus the importance if Damascus as a centre for sword making. Arguing that Damascus was rather known for being a centre of sword trade than for sword making, not that there were no sword smith’s in Damascus, but not enough to make it a centre for sword making – he also mentions many other places, known for their quality swords. On page 104 he writes, ‘Contemporary references to weapons in Syria reinforce the view that Indian swords dominated the market’. I have, in other places, seen hints and references to export of blades from India, but I have never before seen reference to, that the Indian’s should have exported so many blades that they dominated a market as big as the Syrian, which must have been big at the time. When was ‘at the time’? Robert Elgood does not specify it, but from the text I gather, it is from before the Europeans settled in India So now we have an export of blades and ingots to the west, but what about to the east? We know, from stone sculptures, that kerises were used in the south of India; did they also export keris blades to the east? The export of blades to the west alone means, that the blade production in south and west India must have been intensive, as they, not only could equip their own armies with blades, but they also had a very big export of them, if they could dominate the Arabian market. This also means, that many of the blades we normally consider being Persian, may very well be made in India, and on arrival decorated in Persia – if that too was not made in India.

26th April 2005, 10:17 PM	#20
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Welcome to the forum Kiai , I believe that Jens was referring to non-keris blades in his post . On another note I have often heard of 'Sheffield keris' being exported from England to Indonesia / Philippines ; I have yet to see one though . /Enjoyed Toer's Buru Quartet , very moving and enlightening to a 20th c. Westerner .

27th April 2005, 10:04 AM	#21
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Kiai, In the book 'Hindu Arms and Rituals' by Robert Elgood you can see stone sculptures armed with a dagger on page 122-23. Due to copyright I can't show the pictures, but the text under one of the pictures reads: Stone sculpture of Raghunatha Nayaka (1600-34) with sword and kris, in the Rama Temple, Kumbakonam, built c. 1610.

27th April 2005, 10:59 AM	#22
rahman Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 84	Wullungga? There's a place called Wollongong in Australia, and it's an Aboroginal name - long before the coming of the British. One possibility is that there is not enough iron in SEAsia to export. Even when making keris in the old days, people have to use the iron 'pebbles' along the beaches. I guess the scarcity of iron makes the keris more precious, and partly explains the reverence for it.

27th April 2005, 11:38 AM	#23
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Rahman, I don't know it they had iron in the place you mention in Australia, but Australia sounds more reasonable than an African import, as iron was to be had from countries much closer than Africa. I don't know about the rest of SEAsia, but in India they had enough iron, not only for their own use, but they also exported hundreds of tons westwards each year, from the towns in the south. As the Indians also traded eastward, it is likely that the also exported iron to the rest of SEAsia. Another thing is, that the Indian iron can have been so expencive, that many had to get the iron they needed in other ways.