Lady Dagger advice: fix it(how?) or leave it alone?

Legendary_Jarl · 7th August 2021, 05:01 AM

Hello everyone!

I've seen posts from these forums before regarding these type of daggers so I thought it would be the perfect place to ask. I had been looking for one of these daggers since at least 2008 when I first saw one of them at the gotavapen website for the fairbairn sykes dagger. I bought this one on fleebay and unfortunately the seller didn't say the guard was loose to the point it will rattle if moved. It has a good gap. My question is should I risk try to fixing it and if so how? I saw a person on instagram boiling one dagger to melt the resin/pitch keeping the handle attached and then reattach everything again. That dagger however had a bone handle. Mine is ebony wood.

Any advice would be appreciated. I wouldn't want to ruin or destroy this piece of history. But it sucks that when I finally get it it comes damaged like that. I've seen worse though.

If anyone has any information of time period and country of origin I'd appreciate any knowledge you may be able to share.

ausjulius · 7th August 2021, 09:17 AM

get a heat gun and warm the blade till its to hot to touch. hold the handle in a glived hand, when you smell the cutlers resin getcwarm push the blade firmly back into the hand.. hold it togeather and cool it off it some water.. fixed.. remember to head the blade slowly so the heat runs up the blade into the tang.. just use a cheap heat gun from a hardwear store

Tim Simmons · 7th August 2021, 04:24 PM

Just a warning, warm not heat, direct hot flame will change the the colour and nature of the blade. If you are unsure of this process, I doubt you intend to use the dagger perhaps a few spots of super glue just to stop it rattling.
Not gluing it all up.

Saracen · 7th August 2021, 10:08 PM

The tang on these daggers is riveted in the pommel of the handle.
Heating the blade will not help solve the problem. There is no resin there.
In addition, there is a risk of damaging the handle, because it is already cracked.
I would leave it alone.

Ian · 8th August 2021, 09:20 AM

Agree with Saracen. I would leave it alone.

Sajen · 9th August 2021, 01:38 PM

I guess that this dagger is German, from Solingen. I really doubt that the tang is riveted in up from the handle (maybe L_J can confirm) so I would try Ausjulius tip or open the handle and reset it new and strong.
Here a similar one.

Regards,
Detlef

Saracen · 9th August 2021, 08:20 PM

Hi, Detlef. On the two that I can show, the tang are riveted to the handle. Both have a gap at the guard and it rattles. It is interesting that both are marked with Masonic symbols. Legendary_Jarl, if the handle your dagger is made of wood, then you can try to wrap it with a damp cloth and give it some time. I think it might help. The handle will restore the lost moisture and eliminate the gap.

ausjulius · 10th August 2021, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saracen

The tang on these daggers is riveted in the pommel of the handle.
Heating the blade will not help solve the problem. There is no resin there.
In addition, there is a risk of damaging the handle, because it is already cracked.
I would leave it alone.

ah yeah your right.. these are mostly full tags. .
my apologies. i have an ebonite handled german made one which is a partial tang held in with resin..

if it is a full tang tagger its a different game. youd need to file off the peen.. remove the blade.. (warming it slightly if its also on with pitch) and then set it again and repeen it very carefully with a small ball peen hammer and some very careful strikes. -
you must hold the blade in your hand and carefully strike the peen with a little ball peen hammer once the peen has formed you hold the handle in your hand and strike the peen.. you can then peen it together without crushing or breaking the handle as compression will happen only as the tang shrinks not through it bending or being crushed. ..

a lot more complex for a person with no knife making experience.

ausjulius · 10th August 2021, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

I guess that this dagger is German, from Solingen. I really doubt that the tang is riveted in up from the handle (maybe L_J can confirm) so I would try Ausjulius tip or open the handle and reset it new and strong.
Here a similar one.

Regards,
Detlef

yeah both types exist. if the OP takes a photo of his knifes pommel we could see.
if its a partial tang its an easy fix.. you can even just use the existing resin in the handle and reset it.. but a peened tang without experience on a fragile handle needs a little bit of care .

Legendary_Jarl · 10th August 2021, 04:33 AM

This is the best picture my phone could produce. I guess it was riveted before and it lost it but somehow it is still in one piece?

Will the wood benefit from a light coat of linseed oil?

Saracen · 10th August 2021, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ausjulius

my apologies.

Absolutely no problems). I have no complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary_Jarl

Will the wood benefit from a light coat of linseed oil?

I would apply linseed oil at the end of the whole process. After the gap is reduced (if it is reduced) and the guard stops rattling. Linseed oil polymerizes on the surface of the wood, blocking the access of moisture (but also protecting it from excessive drying out).

Sajen · 10th August 2021, 10:15 PM

Yes, peened. A repair is possible but needs experienced hands. So I would follow Saracens advice.

Regards,
Detlef

ausjulius · 11th August 2021, 01:09 AM

yeah best to let it be if you havent somebody veyr exprienced to assist you. as this tang will probably be tapered and if the wood has shrun the tapered tang youll be peening may just be driving up against the wood of the handle and crack it.
youd have to remove the handle completely and re fit it ..
if it was a tool like a billhook or some heavy agricultural tool with a softer wood handle just repeening it would work as beach or ash would just compress and tighten the handle up..
but these are ebony, horn ect ect much harder.. and are carefully fitted at the time they were made. the tang would probably be a close match to the interior of the wooden handle and the handle is thin it may split when its compressed. id say there is probably pitch in the throat of the handle though.

Legendary_Jarl · 11th August 2021, 05:27 PM

Thank you very much to all of you for your responses. Since I don't have much experience and I don't want this piece of history to be ruined I will not attempt any major repairs. That being said, I spoke with an antique arms dealer that told me of a trick he uses in this situation involving black string and it worked well. You can hardly see it and the guard doesn't rattle anymore.

7th August 2021, 05:01 AM	#1
Legendary_Jarl Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 8	Lady Dagger advice: fix it(how?) or leave it alone? Hello everyone! I've seen posts from these forums before regarding these type of daggers so I thought it would be the perfect place to ask. I had been looking for one of these daggers since at least 2008 when I first saw one of them at the gotavapen website for the fairbairn sykes dagger. I bought this one on fleebay and unfortunately the seller didn't say the guard was loose to the point it will rattle if moved. It has a good gap. My question is should I risk try to fixing it and if so how? I saw a person on instagram boiling one dagger to melt the resin/pitch keeping the handle attached and then reattach everything again. That dagger however had a bone handle. Mine is ebony wood. Any advice would be appreciated. I wouldn't want to ruin or destroy this piece of history. But it sucks that when I finally get it it comes damaged like that. I've seen worse though. If anyone has any information of time period and country of origin I'd appreciate any knowledge you may be able to share. Attached Images

7th August 2021, 10:08 PM	#4
Saracen Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 147	The tang on these daggers is riveted in the pommel of the handle. Heating the blade will not help solve the problem. There is no resin there. In addition, there is a risk of damaging the handle, because it is already cracked. I would leave it alone. Last edited by Saracen; 8th August 2021 at 01:26 AM.

9th August 2021, 01:38 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,761	I guess that this dagger is German, from Solingen. I really doubt that the tang is riveted in up from the handle (maybe L_J can confirm) so I would try Ausjulius tip or open the handle and reset it new and strong. Here a similar one. Regards, Detlef Attached Images

9th August 2021, 08:20 PM	#7
Saracen Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 147	Hi, Detlef. On the two that I can show, the tang are riveted to the handle. Both have a gap at the guard and it rattles. It is interesting that both are marked with Masonic symbols. Legendary_Jarl, if the handle your dagger is made of wood, then you can try to wrap it with a damp cloth and give it some time. I think it might help. The handle will restore the lost moisture and eliminate the gap. Attached Images

10th August 2021, 04:33 AM	#10
Legendary_Jarl Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 8	This is the best picture my phone could produce. I guess it was riveted before and it lost it but somehow it is still in one piece? Will the wood benefit from a light coat of linseed oil? Attached Images

7th August 2021, 09:17 AM	#2
ausjulius Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: musorian territory Posts: 422	get a heat gun and warm the blade till its to hot to touch. hold the handle in a glived hand, when you smell the cutlers resin getcwarm push the blade firmly back into the hand.. hold it togeather and cool it off it some water.. fixed.. remember to head the blade slowly so the heat runs up the blade into the tang.. just use a cheap heat gun from a hardwear store

7th August 2021, 04:24 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Just a warning, warm not heat, direct hot flame will change the the colour and nature of the blade. If you are unsure of this process, I doubt you intend to use the dagger perhaps a few spots of super glue just to stop it rattling. Not gluing it all up.

8th August 2021, 09:20 AM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,194	Agree with Saracen. I would leave it alone.

10th August 2021, 10:15 PM	#12
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,761	Yes, peened. A repair is possible but needs experienced hands. So I would follow Saracens advice. Regards, Detlef

11th August 2021, 01:09 AM	#13
ausjulius Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: musorian territory Posts: 422	yeah best to let it be if you havent somebody veyr exprienced to assist you. as this tang will probably be tapered and if the wood has shrun the tapered tang youll be peening may just be driving up against the wood of the handle and crack it. youd have to remove the handle completely and re fit it .. if it was a tool like a billhook or some heavy agricultural tool with a softer wood handle just repeening it would work as beach or ash would just compress and tighten the handle up.. but these are ebony, horn ect ect much harder.. and are carefully fitted at the time they were made. the tang would probably be a close match to the interior of the wooden handle and the handle is thin it may split when its compressed. id say there is probably pitch in the throat of the handle though.

11th August 2021, 05:27 PM	#14
Legendary_Jarl Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 8	Thank you very much to all of you for your responses. Since I don't have much experience and I don't want this piece of history to be ruined I will not attempt any major repairs. That being said, I spoke with an antique arms dealer that told me of a trick he uses in this situation involving black string and it worked well. You can hardly see it and the guard doesn't rattle anymore. Attached Images