Kindjal from Trabzon (?) for Comment

TVV · 25th November 2012, 03:36 AM

I was lucky enough to acquire this rather impressive (25 inches overall) kindjal (kama). The blade profile looks similar to the kindjals from the Pontus region around Trabzon in nowadays Turkey. The scabbard chape resembles closely one seen on a photo of Pontic Greek guerrillas that Eftihis supplied in a thread about the Laz bichagi and weapons from the area. The hilt however is not quite as angular and its decoration looks quite like the decoration typically seen on Georgian kindjals. I wonder if the type was popular not just in Pontus, but also in Western Georgia: Adjara and Guria?
Regards,
Teodor

ariel · 25th November 2012, 04:05 AM

Kirill Rivkin in his new book on classification of Caucasian weapons attributes them to the Western Georgia, Black Sea region. He also suggests that they were Circassian in their origin, specifically Shapsugh, based on the width of their blades. Somebody aptly nicknamed them the "artillery shell kindjals" :-)
I have one, with much more silver, but with damaged iron scabbard fitting. On the other hand, the damascus pattern on mine is exquisite: very complex, compact and precise, typical Georgian high class. And a hollow-ground blade, to boot.

If you ever get tired of yours, please let me know.

A.alnakkas · 25th November 2012, 12:10 PM

Nice one, had it on watch but forgot to bid :-) Defintly an item worth having.

Hara_morin · 25th November 2012, 09:35 PM

Nice kindjal! i have only 1 this type

TVV · 25th November 2012, 09:38 PM

Thank you gentlemen for the quick responses. I sent Kirill an e-mail, asking where I can buy his book.
Regards,
Teodor

ariel · 27th November 2012, 12:31 PM

Teodor,
Just go there:
http://museummilitary.com/ru
and order #4 and #7: these are Kirill's books on Caucasian weapons.
I hope your Russian is good enough to navigate the site.
I have spare copies of #4: history of Caucasian warfare and weapons. If you need one, send me a PM.
#7 just came out: more of a technical one, pinpointing details attributable to certain times and localities of manufacture . Very useful.
Ariel

TVV · 27th November 2012, 07:24 PM

Ariel,

Thank you or the link: I already visited the site, but found only #4. I cannot find #7, which if I unerstand correctly is the actual collector's guide.
Teodor

eftihis · 6th December 2012, 10:28 PM

This one is in the military museum of Thessaloniki in Greece.

TVV · 6th December 2012, 11:25 PM

Thank you Eftihis,

Nice dagger and quite an eclectic display of items from the Western all the way to the Eastern borders of the Ottoman Empire.

This is somewhat off topic, but how large is the Military Museum in Thessaloniki, and is it worth making a trip from Sofia one day to just see it? Is it dedicated to the Greek struggle for independence in parts of Macedonia and Southern Thrace, or is the emphasis on the Balkan and World Wars?

Teodor

eftihis · 7th December 2012, 06:55 AM

Hi Theodor, it is mainly focused on first and second world war.. But has a collection from 1821 as well...Send me your e-m ail, and i will send you more photos!

TVV · 7th December 2012, 06:31 PM

Thank you for the pictures, Eftihis,

I sent you an e-mail as you have maxed out your personal messages quota.

Teodor

25th November 2012, 03:36 AM	#1
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,625	Kindjal from Trabzon (?) for Comment I was lucky enough to acquire this rather impressive (25 inches overall) kindjal (kama). The blade profile looks similar to the kindjals from the Pontus region around Trabzon in nowadays Turkey. The scabbard chape resembles closely one seen on a photo of Pontic Greek guerrillas that Eftihis supplied in a thread about the Laz bichagi and weapons from the area. The hilt however is not quite as angular and its decoration looks quite like the decoration typically seen on Georgian kindjals. I wonder if the type was popular not just in Pontus, but also in Western Georgia: Adjara and Guria? Regards, Teodor Attached Images

25th November 2012, 04:05 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Kirill Rivkin in his new book on classification of Caucasian weapons attributes them to the Western Georgia, Black Sea region. He also suggests that they were Circassian in their origin, specifically Shapsugh, based on the width of their blades. Somebody aptly nicknamed them the "artillery shell kindjals" :-) I have one, with much more silver, but with damaged iron scabbard fitting. On the other hand, the damascus pattern on mine is exquisite: very complex, compact and precise, typical Georgian high class. And a hollow-ground blade, to boot. If you ever get tired of yours, please let me know. Last edited by Lew; 26th November 2012 at 04:56 AM.

6th December 2012, 10:28 PM	#8
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 507	This one is in the military museum of Thessaloniki in Greece. Attached Images

7th December 2012, 06:55 AM	#10
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 507	Hi Theodor, it is mainly focused on first and second world war.. But has a collection from 1821 as well...Send me your e-m ail, and i will send you more photos! Attached Images

25th November 2012, 12:10 PM	#3
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Nice one, had it on watch but forgot to bid :-) Defintly an item worth having.

25th November 2012, 09:35 PM	#4
Hara_morin Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 53	Nice kindjal! i have only 1 this type Attached Images

25th November 2012, 09:38 PM	#5
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,625	Thank you gentlemen for the quick responses. I sent Kirill an e-mail, asking where I can buy his book. Regards, Teodor

27th November 2012, 12:31 PM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Teodor, Just go there: http://museummilitary.com/ru and order #4 and #7: these are Kirill's books on Caucasian weapons. I hope your Russian is good enough to navigate the site. I have spare copies of #4: history of Caucasian warfare and weapons. If you need one, send me a PM. #7 just came out: more of a technical one, pinpointing details attributable to certain times and localities of manufacture . Very useful. Ariel

27th November 2012, 07:24 PM	#7
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,625	Ariel, Thank you or the link: I already visited the site, but found only #4. I cannot find #7, which if I unerstand correctly is the actual collector's guide. Teodor

6th December 2012, 11:25 PM	#9
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,625	Thank you Eftihis, Nice dagger and quite an eclectic display of items from the Western all the way to the Eastern borders of the Ottoman Empire. This is somewhat off topic, but how large is the Military Museum in Thessaloniki, and is it worth making a trip from Sofia one day to just see it? Is it dedicated to the Greek struggle for independence in parts of Macedonia and Southern Thrace, or is the emphasis on the Balkan and World Wars? Teodor

7th December 2012, 06:31 PM	#11
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,625	Thank you for the pictures, Eftihis, I sent you an e-mail as you have maxed out your personal messages quota. Teodor