Middle Eastern knife (?)

Ian · 14th January 2018, 03:59 AM

Another one I need help to pin down.

I acquired this knife at an antiques fair during a trip to London in 2000. The dealer said it was Middle Eastern and WWII vintage. I saw a well made knife with a good blade, nice metal sheath and clean hilt--and I talked him down to 14 pounds. I think the sheath is silver plated (no marks). The blade is single edged with a false edge along the distal half of the blade. The spine of the blade is on the side where the small quillion of the guard turns down towards the blade. The hilt is a mix of materials, with the grip being bone. There is a grooved pommel that fits the thumb for a stabbing blow.

Overall length = 9.5 inches. I like the feel of this attractive looking knife. The back of the scabbard has two rings near the throat for some type of suspension mechanism.

I was thinking it may be Syrian, Lebanese or Jordanian, but I would like to hear from someone who is far more expert on these than I am.

Ian

.

Bob A · 14th January 2018, 07:23 AM

It's a handsome package overall, and priced delightfully.

While it's far from my area of interest (to say nothing of what passes for my "expertise,") my first thought was Spanish. Second thought didn't vary much.

corrado26 · 14th January 2018, 09:07 AM

The concave end of the pommel reminds me on the famous French daggers of "Les Belles de Nuits".
corrado26

motan · 14th January 2018, 09:09 AM

Hi Ian,
It dagger is almost certainly Lebanese. The general type could be either Syrian or Lebanese (not Jordanian), This type of scabbard is common in both (see pic 1). However, this shape of pommel you call thumb rest is common in a certain types of Lebanese daggers (see third from left in pic 2) and the presence of a guard is common in Lebanese daggers, but mostly absent in Syrian ones. The use of solid bone and the way the hilt tapers to a narrow metal part towards the blade is also typical of Lebanon.
This type of dagger is usually seen as a presentation piece and the scabbard is often cast and coated, rather than chiseled and plated. I can not say if that is the case with yours, but it is a special and high quality example of this type (though probably not very old).
Eytan

Kubur · 14th January 2018, 09:14 AM

I confirm what Eytan wrote about the scabbard.
Typical of souvenirs from the French mandate era and area...
But I'm not so sure about the dagger, may be a prostitute dagger as mentionned previously...
The problem is the flat blade, it should be a triangular stilleto type blade...

Kubur

Ian · 14th January 2018, 03:34 PM

Gents,

Thanks to you all for your thoughtful comments. Much appreciated!

So Lebanese, being a French influenced piece from a former mandate area. Very interesting. Later today I will try to show more detail of the blade. It is not double-edged, but has a substantial false edge that is not sharpened, which Kubur thinks is unusual so I will get better pictures for the archives.

I must admit that the eye appeal of this knife and scabbard, plus the price, were deciding factors for me in acquiring this one. The Middle East is not my area of focus (I can't afford to explore the knives of every corner of the world) but I do appreciate a pretty face from wherever it may be.

Ian.

thinreadline · 14th January 2018, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Gents,

Thanks to you all for your thoughtful comments. Much appreciated!

So Lebanese, being a French influenced piece from a former mandate area. Very interesting. Later today I will try to show more detail of the blade. It is not double-edged, but has a substantial false edge that is not sharpened which Kubur thinks is unusual so I will get better pictures for the archives.

I must admit that the eye appeal of this knife and scabbard, plus the price, were deciding factors for me in acquiring this one. The Middle East is not my area of focus (I can't afford to explore the knives of every corner of the world) but I do appreciate a pretty face from wherever it may be.

Ian.

It ss a very good looking knife Ian and I think you did very well indeed to buy anything in London for £14 , including a cup of coffee !

Kubur · 20th January 2018, 06:16 PM

Sometimes a picture is better than words...
Please note that the dagger is older than the scabbard but came with it.

LJ · 20th January 2018, 06:40 PM

Does the Arabic inscription - which seems to read the same on both scabbards - give any indication of the origin ?

Ian · 20th January 2018, 07:18 PM

Kubur,

Your sheath looks identical to the one I posted. Should be more of these around, and I hope that folks can post more examples. Where was the knife from that accompanied the sheath?

Ian

Kubur · 20th January 2018, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Kubur,

Your sheath looks identical to the one I posted. Should be more of these around, and I hope that folks can post more examples. Where was the knife from that accompanied the sheath?

Ian

Hi Ian,

These three posts will give you some precious answers.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=magdali
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=magdali
and for you this one in particular
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=magdali

14th January 2018, 03:59 AM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,197	Middle Eastern knife (?) Another one I need help to pin down. I acquired this knife at an antiques fair during a trip to London in 2000. The dealer said it was Middle Eastern and WWII vintage. I saw a well made knife with a good blade, nice metal sheath and clean hilt--and I talked him down to 14 pounds. I think the sheath is silver plated (no marks). The blade is single edged with a false edge along the distal half of the blade. The spine of the blade is on the side where the small quillion of the guard turns down towards the blade. The hilt is a mix of materials, with the grip being bone. There is a grooved pommel that fits the thumb for a stabbing blow. Overall length = 9.5 inches. I like the feel of this attractive looking knife. The back of the scabbard has two rings near the throat for some type of suspension mechanism. I was thinking it may be Syrian, Lebanese or Jordanian, but I would like to hear from someone who is far more expert on these than I am. Ian . Attached Images

14th January 2018, 09:07 AM	#3
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	The concave end of the pommel reminds me on the famous French daggers of "Les Belles de Nuits". corrado26 Attached Images

14th January 2018, 09:09 AM	#4
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	Hi Ian, It dagger is almost certainly Lebanese. The general type could be either Syrian or Lebanese (not Jordanian), This type of scabbard is common in both (see pic 1). However, this shape of pommel you call thumb rest is common in a certain types of Lebanese daggers (see third from left in pic 2) and the presence of a guard is common in Lebanese daggers, but mostly absent in Syrian ones. The use of solid bone and the way the hilt tapers to a narrow metal part towards the blade is also typical of Lebanon. This type of dagger is usually seen as a presentation piece and the scabbard is often cast and coated, rather than chiseled and plated. I can not say if that is the case with yours, but it is a special and high quality example of this type (though probably not very old). Eytan Attached Images

20th January 2018, 06:16 PM	#8
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Sometimes a picture is better than words... Please note that the dagger is older than the scabbard but came with it. Attached Images

14th January 2018, 07:23 AM	#2
Bob A Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 427	It's a handsome package overall, and priced delightfully. While it's far from my area of interest (to say nothing of what passes for my "expertise,") my first thought was Spanish. Second thought didn't vary much.

14th January 2018, 09:14 AM	#5
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	I confirm what Eytan wrote about the scabbard. Typical of souvenirs from the French mandate era and area... But I'm not so sure about the dagger, may be a prostitute dagger as mentionned previously... The problem is the flat blade, it should be a triangular stilleto type blade... Kubur

14th January 2018, 03:34 PM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,197	Gents, Thanks to you all for your thoughtful comments. Much appreciated! So Lebanese, being a French influenced piece from a former mandate area. Very interesting. Later today I will try to show more detail of the blade. It is not double-edged, but has a substantial false edge that is not sharpened, which Kubur thinks is unusual so I will get better pictures for the archives. I must admit that the eye appeal of this knife and scabbard, plus the price, were deciding factors for me in acquiring this one. The Middle East is not my area of focus (I can't afford to explore the knives of every corner of the world) but I do appreciate a pretty face from wherever it may be. Ian.

20th January 2018, 06:40 PM	#9
LJ Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 93	Does the Arabic inscription - which seems to read the same on both scabbards - give any indication of the origin ?

20th January 2018, 07:18 PM	#10
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,197	Kubur, Your sheath looks identical to the one I posted. Should be more of these around, and I hope that folks can post more examples. Where was the knife from that accompanied the sheath? Ian