My 2 new adquisitions from Philippines

[carlos]

Hello
I want to share my new 2 pieces!!!!
They are 2 swords with unusual hilts, I wish you enjoy with pictures, any information is wellcome!!!
Thanks in advance
Carlos

[kai]

Wow, those are super nice, Carlos!

I'd tend to place the longer one as Sulu. Quite an unusual blade - it almost looks like a hybrid between a slender barung and a straight kris with asymmetric sabre tip. What's its length and thickness?

Hilt is typical Naga style. The dark inlays are made from wood?

I have an even tougher find to reliably classify the second piece. Congrats on these finds!

Regards,
Kai

[kino]

They’re beautiful!! Congrats Carlos.

[Rick]

The pommel on the ebony(?)hilt seems reminiscent of the Lasara motif seen on Nias swords.
Lucky you.


http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attach...1&d=1433439036

[Ian]

Two very nice swords. The hilts are what stand out. The familiar Naga motif on the longer one and (perhaps) a Lazara form on the other. I agree with Rick that the shorter one is likely from Sumatra, but it's not a familiar blade for Nias. That Naga style has been associated with Sulu swords previously.

[Battara]

Wonderful examples!

The second piece with the ebony carving seems to me to have a Visayan look, perhaps like from Panay Island.

Inserts on the barong look like ivory the black parts do look like ebony inserts. I love the naga form on these. When I grow up I may get one too......

[Sajen]

Hello Carlos, great swords, just beautiful and very unique! Congrats!

Regards,
Detlef

[carlos]

Thanks allí for your information!!!!
The dark inlays are made from wood, yes !

[kai]

Very nice collection of early Filipino swords, Carlos!

I agree that the other blade might well have a Lumad origin, especially Mandaya and possibly related groups; even despite figural hilts not being documented from this area - also neighbouring Visayan islands may be a possibility. Do I assume correctly though that the edge doesn't exhibit a chisel grind?

While of somewhat similar shape, I'd posit that the Luzon bolos are not as closely related. However, they may hint at an earlier ancestral blade shared more widely across the islands.

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Hello Rick & Ian,

The pommel on the ebony(?)hilt seems reminiscent of the Lasara motif seen on Nias swords.

This figural hilt is definitely not from Nias. I do see where you are coming from. However, the carving details and ferrule as well as the blade don't vibe with Nias (nor any related cultures).

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attach...1&d=1433439036

There is a Nias hilt style that seems even closer to Carlos' example than the most well known Nias sword hilt. Let me see if I can dredge up a pic for posting.

Regards,
Kai

[Ian]

Originally Posted by kai

...
I agree that the other blade might well have a Lumad origin, especially Mandaya and possibly related groups; even despite figural hilts not being documented from this area ...

This does not look Mandayan to me. The hilt would be highly unusual, as would the inscribed blade. Also, the blade lacks the little "nubbin" along the cutting edge where it angles down sharply. Incidentally, I think the right hand sword in Carlos' picture of five is Mandayan, showing the typical hilt form and blade with (what I think) is that small "nubbin" on the edge.

... also neighbouring Visayan islands may be a possibility. Do I assume correctly though that the edge doesn't exhibit a chisel grind? ...

There's a lot of Visayan odd deity hilts but I've not seen one like this, especially with curly hair. It's sort of reminiscent of a Sinhalese lion with that curly mane.

While of somewhat similar shape, I'd posit that the Luzon bolos are not as closely related. However, they may hint at an earlier ancestral blade shared more widely across the islands. ...

The resemblance seems vague to me and I don't know of any hilt forms like that in northern Luzon.

I'm in the not-Filipino camp for this one.

[kai]

Hello Ian,

This does not look Mandayan to me. The hilt would be highly unusual,

Yes, it is. However it does not help unless we find a provenanced example to align it with: For the time being, just ignore it and focus on the blade, please.

as would the inscribed blade.

Yes, the engraved "bolster" is unusual; as you are aware, some Visayan blades exhibit varying amounts of engraving or sculpturing at their (often widening) bases. The shallow fuller is unusual, too.

Also, the blade lacks the little "nubbin" along the cutting edge where it angles down sharply.

Incidentally, I think the right hand sword in Carlos' picture of five is Mandayan, showing the typical hilt form and blade with (what I think) is that small "nubbin" on the edge.

Indeed, the latter is a good Mandaya example including the blade with "central" ridge (which not all Mandaya blades exhibit). I feel that placing the blade under discussion next to it is a good idea: Especially considering the kink in the blade and its flared base.

There are several Mandaya subgroups and neighbouring groups. Linguistically, Mandayan languages are linked to a few neighbouring Lumad groups and, less closely, Visayan groups.

There's a lot of Visayan odd deity hilts but I've not seen one like this, especially with curly hair. It's sort of reminiscent of a Sinhalese lion with that curly mane.

It's certainly not one of the major types. While this strongly curled hair can be also seen with some Indonesian groups, I'd be inclined to believe we might see some Chinese influence here.

The resemblance seems vague to me and I don't know of any hilt forms like that in northern Luzon.

For the time being, we have no convincing contender for this hilt.

Dipalata blades don't have the widening at the base nor the kink in the blade; the round guard crafted from steel or horn is more widely shared though.

Establishing a possible link between these will prove to be much harder since this would refer back to a way earlier period.

Regards,
Kai

[Sajen]

I don't think that the sword under discussion is Indonesian.

[Rick]

Nor do I.
Reminiscent does not imply that I thought the sword to be of Sumatran origin.

[carlos]

Thanks all for the information
I add another picture from seller...

[Ian]

Carlos,

Just to clarify. When you posted "two new acquisitions from the Philippines," did you mean that you bought them from someone in the Philippines, or that you thought they were from the Philippines (but bought elsewhere).

[carlos]

I bought 2 pieces in Spain, and I thought swords were made on Philippines.
Thanks
Carlos



][/I]

Originally Posted by Ian

Carlos,

Just to clarify. When you posted "two new acquisitions from the Philippines," did you mean that you bought them from someone in the Philippines, or that you thought they were from the Philippines (but bought elsewhere).

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Rick

Nor do I.
Reminiscent does not imply that I thought the sword to be of Sumatran origin.

Hello Rick,

My comment was meant in general terms, not related to any previous comment.

Regards,
Detlef

[Rick]

Thanks for the clarification, Detlef.

I would love to see a picture of this hilt face on. These side views are not really helpful in getting a full picture of this hilt..