An indian khanda for comment.

[Cerjak]

An indian khanda for comment.
This Indian khanda has a broad a heavy blade double-edged for its last third .The hilt decorated with silver niello flowers and foliage.
Any comment on it will be welcome.
Best

Cerjak

[mariusgmioc]

double message deleted

[mariusgmioc]

Hello,
I am by no means a specialist of the field but this appears to be a purely decorative sword (as it seems the blade doesn't even have a consistent edge) and quite remotely connected (namely only by the overall the shape of the blade) to a real Khanda. Also appears quite crudely made so I'm rather supicious about it.

[Cthulhu]

I don't think it's too unusual to have the carving on a piece look a little childish, but generally the edges of a weapon are in smooth, intentional-looking lines or curves. It definitely looks decorative to me. And I'd expect that the people of the time were fairly familiar with what good swords looked like, which for me points to more recent manufacture.

Are there images on both sides of the sword? If it's only one side, it pushes me more towards the idea that it's made to be wall-mounted art. (Though it's only the vaguest of nudges in that direction)

However, with luck we'll have people much better informed than I render an opinion.

[Jens Nordlunde]

To me this is a decorative piece, and not very old.

[iskender]

in the book Arms of the Paladines, page 67 is a thega with a similar worked blade. Udaipur late 19th. century , made for large parades with great pomp for lokal rulers and british officials. greetings iskender

[Jim McDougall]

I agree with Jens, and to 'old timers' like he and I....19th century is indeed.....not very old

[Cerjak]

Originally Posted by iskender

in the book Arms of the Paladines, page 67 is a thega with a similar worked blade. Udaipur late 19th. century , made for large parades with great pomp for lokal rulers and british officials. greetings iskender

hi Iskender,
Thank you for this information also could you post one scan from the p67
Best
CERJAK

[Kubur]

Hi CERJAK,

For me it's 19th c. I've seen few of them.
Now ritual or decorative piece maybe...
Most of the objects posted on this forum are from the 19th c. (at least for the ethnographic forum)...

Best,
Kubur

[BANDOOK]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi CERJAK,

For me it's 19th c. I've seen few of them.
Now ritual or decorative piece maybe...
Most of the objects posted on this forum are from the 19th c. (at least for the ethnographic forum)...

Best,
Kubur

AGREE WITH KUBUR IT HAS AGE TO IT,MANY KHANDAS WERE NOT ONLY USED FOR WARFARE BUT ALSO FOR CEREMONIAL PURPOSE ,NICE SWORD
THANKS FOR POSTING

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

If we can see some examples ? I include some Firangi as the hilts are the same... The Rajputs easily recognised in their head dress with Quoits inserted and their leader with the huge Khanda.
It is noted that the spike protruding from the top of the hilt was used as a holding point for the other hand turning this into a two hander for certain strikes; adding more power.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Ibrahim, please notice, that not all of the swords you show are firangis, some of them may be, while others may be Indian copies of European blades, but some of them are pure Indian blades.

You write "The Rajputs easily recognised in their head dress with Quoits inserted and their leader with the huge Khanda."
They are not Rajputs, they are Punjabi's of the Akali religion, all dressed in dark blue dresses.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Ibrahim, please notice, that not all of the swords you show are firangis, some of them may be, while others may be Indian copies of European blades, but some of them are pure Indian blades.

You write "The Rajputs easily recognised in their head dress with Quoits inserted and their leader with the huge Khanda."
They are not Rajputs, they are Punjabi's of the Akali religion, all dressed in dark blue dresses.

Thank you for your comments although I did note that some of the blades were Firanji meaning there was a mixture of Khanda and Firanji...I have no idea which are Indian and which are not. The Rajput suggestion was right off the top of my head ...I have no idea how that came about... Such are the complexities of this vast subject...Below are more pictures of Akali regions warriors..
Please see http://www.vam.ac.uk/content/articles/m/military-sikhs/ for a V and A detail on Akali Sikhs...

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Refocusing on the Khanda which is a truly huge chopping weapon of great antiquity...From Wikepedia I Quote"
History

Early swords appear in the archaeological record of ritual copper swords in Fatehgarh Northern India and Kallur in Southern India. although the Puranas and Vedas give an even older date to the sacrificial knife. Straight swords, (as well as other swords curved both inward and outward), have been used in Indian history since the Iron Age Mahajanapadas (roughly 600 to 300 BC), being mentioned in the Sanskrit epics, and used in soldiers in armies such as those of the Mauryan Empire. Several sculptures from the Gupta era (AD 280-550) portray soldiers holding khanda-like broadswords. These are again flared out at the tip. They continued to be used in art such as Chola-era murtis.

There is host of paintings depicting the khanda being worn by Rajput kings throughout the medieval era. It was used usually by foot-soldiers and by nobles who were unhorsed in battle. The Rajput warrior clans venerated the khanda as a weapon of great prestige.

According to some, the design was improved by Prithviraj Chauhan. He added a back spine on the blade to add more strength. He also made the blade wider and flatter, making it a formidable cutting weapon. The new design proved very effective against the leather inlaid chain mail armour of Muslim invaders. It also gave a good advantage to infantry over light cavalry enemy armies.

Rajput warriors in battle wielded the khanda with both hands and swung it over their head when surrounded and outnumbered by the enemy. It was in this manner that they traditionally committed an honourable last stand rather than be captured. Even today they venerate the khanda on the occasion of Dasara.

Maharana Pratap is known to have wielded a khanda. The son in law of Miyan Tansen Naubat Khan also wielded khanda and the family was known as Khandare Beenkar. Wazir Khan (Rampur) Khandara was a famous beenkar of 19th century.

Many Sikh warriors of the Akali-Nihang order are known to have wielded khandas. For instance, Akali Deep Singh is famous for wielding a khanda in his final battle before reaching martyrdom, which is still preserved at Akaal Takhat Sahib. Akali Phula Singh is also known to have wielded a khanda, and this practise was popular among officers and leaders in the Sikh Khalsa Army as well as by Sikh sardars of the Misls and of the Sikh Empire. The Sikh martial art, Gatka also uses Khandas.''Unquote.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Your Wekipedia source could be right, but dont have to be, so all these quotes must be taken with a bit of salt - some evn with a small handful of salt.
I do agree that Wikepedia is a great source of information, but do be careful not to belive everything what is written on it.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Your Wekipedia source could be right, but dont have to be, so all these quotes must be taken with a bit of salt - some evn with a small handful of salt.
I do agree that Wikepedia is a great source of information, but do be careful not to belive everything what is written on it.

I occasionally use web and Forum Library(Search). Some care is taken to get a reasonable and well constructed post. The world wide web is staggering in its depth although at times some care is needed...I find the Forum Library very extensive; Forum like web search are after all computerized retrieval Systems so both are enormously useful. From the cross referencing carried out on the Wikipedia article I cannot find any discrepancies thus I think my due diligence has been correct...

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Here I present a fine sold Khanda of quite early provenance ...From the famous stable of Mr Michael Backman please see http://www.michaelbackmanltd.com/1278.html

I Quote"
Michael Backman Ltd - Home

Large Khanda Wootz Damascus Sword with Fine Silver Open-Work Scabbard
Northern India late 17th century length: 100cm

This early khanda has an excellent wootz or damascened blade; a large, gilded, ornate hilt; and a scabbard with superbly worked silver mounts - which
themselves offer excellent and relatively rare examples of late seventeenth century Indian silver work.

The khanda is the oldest style of Indian swords. This example has a finely-grained damascened double-edged blade which is long, thin and flares at the end to a curved point. Ornate strengthening plates in steel run along the edges part way down both sides of the blade, and down the middle of the blade. The hilt has a broad plate guard and a wide finger guard which joins the discus-like pommel. A spike on the pommel acts as a guard for the arm and for a grip for the left hand if performing a two-handed stroke. The pommel and guards are all silvered and then plated with gold, as well as having been cast and chiselled with various petal and leafy motifs. The grip is covered in fine, plaited silver wire.

The scabbard is of thin wood covered with what would have been velvet cloth (now very worn) with a woven silver strip down the middle of each side. The chape and the locket are of cast and chased silver and are beautifully worked with pairs of humming birds amongst large stylised orchid blooms, scrolling foliage and other flowers. (It is unusual to see a khanda scabbard with both an elaborate chape and locket - normally only a chape is present.) The silver work here is not unlike a silver scabbard, rosewater sprinkler and pandan box illustrated in Zebrowski (1997, p. 41-3); and for a scabbard with some very similar silver work which is attributed to the mid-sixteenth century, see Elgood (2004, p. 113.) Two similar although less ornate khandas and without scabbards are in the Clive Collection at Powis Castle (see Archer, 1987, p.53).

The form of the khanda is related to that of the firangi sword also used in India from the sixteenth century. The firangi has a closed hilt and a blade exported to India by the Portuguese. (The term 'firangi' derives from the word 'franj' - a blanket term used to denote anything European.) Local versions of the firangi soon evolved, of which the khanda appears to relate. The khanda is the main sword of Orissa but also was used by Rajputs and Mahrattas.

Khanda-like swords evolved in Southeast Asia too, most notably in the Sultanate of Aceh, which has a long history of commercial and diplomatic links with India, the Ottomans and even Europe.

This example is an early Indian example with very strong features, most particularly, the extensive silver mounts employed on the scabbard.

References:
Archer, M. et al, Treasures from India: The Clive Collection at Powis Castle, The National Trust, 1987.
Elgood, R., Hindu Arms and Ritual: Arms and Armour from India 1400-1865, Eburon, 2004.
Stone, G.C., A Glossary of the Construction, Decoration and Use of Arms and Armour, first published in 1934, Jack Brussel, 1961.
Zebrowski, M., Gold, Silver & Bronze from Mughal India, Alexandria Press, 1997."Unquote.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

This picture is one of the finer attempts at capturing this weapon's hilt thus worth recording ...The extension protruding from the hilt is to allow extra power in the downward strike by applying force with the other hand and also offers some added protection to the sword arm.

[Cerjak]

other exemplar with similar decoration