Indonesian blade with 'Tjikeroeh' inscription

sta94 · 20th September 2009, 07:55 PM

Hello, I acquired this really neat knife/short-sword recently. I don't have much experience with Southeast Asian weapons so thought I should share it here and get expert opinions & feedback. The Oriental-Arms website has similar knives being described as being made in the village of Tjikeroeh (variations in spellings), now called Chikorea (sp?) in Indonesia, targeted at the colonial Dutch population and combining aspects of native Indonesian as well as Western swords. This one has "TJIKEROEH" and "1898" inscribed on the base of the blade near the hilt. I'm guessing that's the year the blade was made, as the Oriental Arms examples also have similar inscriptions with year of manufactures. Everything about this knife looks to be well-made - from the blade, designs on the blade flats & spine, guard, hilt, to the simple scabbard.

So ... what do you all think???

sta94 · 20th September 2009, 08:01 PM

Some more photos:

Is there a specific name for knives/swords like this? Is this an average, above-average, or below-average example? Any additional info? Thank you very much!

asomotif · 20th September 2009, 10:21 PM

Hello Sta94,

Here is a link to a thread showing some examples and some discussion about the origin / use.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=tjikeroeh

In this thread, 2 links to other threads.
You can also try the seach function for "tjikeroeh".

The turn up pretty frequently worldwide.
Your example seems like "average" quality to me. Is there a scabbard ?

Best regards,
Willem

Sajen · 20th September 2009, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Hello Sta94,

Here is a link to a thread showing some examples and some discussion about the origin / use.
In this thread, 2 links to other threads.
You can also try the seach function for "tjikeroeh".

The turn up pretty frequently worldwide.
Your example seems like "average" quality to me. Is there a scabbard ?

Best regards,
Willem

Hi Willem,
you foget to give the link!

Regards,

Detlef

Sajen · 20th September 2009, 11:01 PM

This swords called Golok, your blade is very nice. But it seems like the hilt is from a newer date, please show us the sheat.

Regards,

sajen

sta94 · 21st September 2009, 09:03 AM

Hi guys, thanks so much for the additional info and the links. Lots of info in there, I'll be digesting them slowly.

So, you'd call this a Golok variant? I was initially thinking along the lines of Parang, seeing its similarity to a few photos of a Parang Nabur I saw recently. There is such a variety in SEAsian blade forms that it'll probably be a while before a beginner like me can sort them all out.

As for this sword, to my amateurish eyes, the hilt and the scabbard seem to be made of a similar kind of wood (don't know the wood type). One side of the scabbard is lighter color than the other. Also the scabbard and hilt look like they're of around the same age. Don't know if this means that they came with the original blade or if they were replaced around the same time. The tang does not come out of the end of the hilt though, unlike the examples I see in the links posted.

The first two photos I posted above shows the sword next to its wooden scabbard. I'm posting more pics below:

Amuk Murugul · 21st September 2009, 10:24 AM

Hullo everybody!

The blade appears to be made in the village/district of Tjikeroeh, which still exists today and is now spelt Cikeruh (any other form of current spelling is either born out of ignorance or a simple typo).
It appears to be of good quality, considering the era and the fact that the manufacturing was a small village operation, which also turned out everyday utensils (i.e. not an armourer). In fact, the operation was generally a sort of village cooperative, with different households being involved in different parts of the manufacturing process.
The blade was made at the end of the period when the village was producing swords for the colonial Dutch para-military/military (the Dutch shifted production of swords to Europe in 1898).

The motif and the clip-point suggests that it was probably made for a European and not as a run-of-the-mill product.
I call it a pedang as it does not follow the golok protocol.
The hilt and scabbard are also atypical for a local pedang.

Best,

sta94 · 21st September 2009, 12:51 PM

Hi Amuk, thanks for the additional info, much appreciated!

Henk · 21st September 2009, 05:28 PM

Because this type of daggers was made for the Dutch and after european standards I wouldn't call this nor a Golok nor a Pedang.

The shape of this dagger is more that of a Hartsvanger (Dutch) or as the Germans call it a Hirschfanger.

asomotif · 21st September 2009, 10:46 PM

I agree with Henk.

These weapons where not made for indonesian people.
In that case I can not Imagine that there would be a date and name.

The shape is indeed of a hartsvanger and also the handguards often follow hartvangers designs.

Ps. this summer I visted family in France and I saw a golok with also a inscription, but then tjikeru or something like that.
The owner told me that he bought it in the 70' and that it was made before his own eyes in a workshop in Jakarta, using old car springs.

So I can imagine that the name Tjikeroeh was also used in other locations.

Sajen · 22nd September 2009, 12:51 AM

After looking again to the complete piece I have to agree with Henk and Willem, it look indeed like a "Hirschfänger" and in this case the handle and sheat would be original.

sajen

Amuk Murugul · 22nd September 2009, 01:17 AM

Hi everybody,

I see the usual problem of naming an article.

It is definitely not a golok.
However, it was made in Soenda and it is a short sword (by European standards). The Soenda generic word for sword is 'pedang'.(BTW... I should emphasise that the piece is a good quality commercial piece, not as good as a military piece )

Are we going to quibble and be pedantic about whether it should be called a shortsword/hunting-sword/hunting-dagger/forestry-sword/forestry-dagger (English), hirschfanger (German) or hartsvanger (Dutch)?

As for the bit about the Jakarta workshop,.... Not surprising!
Ref. saying:'Ada doeit....can do it....'
...anything can be done for the right money.....
Hence....CAVEAT EMPTORRR!!

If we want to play the blame game...
Quite a few vendors/dealers (especially from Europe where prices are relatively higher than in the USA) go to Indo once or twice a year to stock up. Some among them have 'special requests'.

......Big Brother is watching....

Best,

sta94 · 22nd September 2009, 05:31 AM

hmmmm ... interesting ... very interesting. Thanks for all the additional info. Really appreciate it. I paid a decent amount but thankfully not too much for this piece, so I will not be laying awake at nights! Also, I really like it.

Really great to know all the extra stuff you guys mentioned.

sta94 · 22nd September 2009, 05:40 AM

BTW, a lot of the photos I posted above seem to be showing up as red Xs. Are you guys seeing the same? Usually I use pics saved on photobucket, which show up oretty big. But to save space I decreased their size on Picasa and posted them here. Anything I'm doing wrong? Thanks!

Rick · 22nd September 2009, 03:26 PM

Better if you upload photos directly to the site ; then they won't disappear in the future .

20th September 2009, 07:55 PM	#1
sta94 Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 16	Indonesian blade with 'Tjikeroeh' inscription Hello, I acquired this really neat knife/short-sword recently. I don't have much experience with Southeast Asian weapons so thought I should share it here and get expert opinions & feedback. The Oriental-Arms website has similar knives being described as being made in the village of Tjikeroeh (variations in spellings), now called Chikorea (sp?) in Indonesia, targeted at the colonial Dutch population and combining aspects of native Indonesian as well as Western swords. This one has "TJIKEROEH" and "1898" inscribed on the base of the blade near the hilt. I'm guessing that's the year the blade was made, as the Oriental Arms examples also have similar inscriptions with year of manufactures. Everything about this knife looks to be well-made - from the blade, designs on the blade flats & spine, guard, hilt, to the simple scabbard. So ... what do you all think???

20th September 2009, 10:21 PM	#3
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Hello Sta94, Here is a link to a thread showing some examples and some discussion about the origin / use. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=tjikeroeh In this thread, 2 links to other threads. You can also try the seach function for "tjikeroeh". The turn up pretty frequently worldwide. Your example seems like "average" quality to me. Is there a scabbard ? Best regards, Willem Last edited by asomotif; 20th September 2009 at 11:19 PM.

20th September 2009, 08:01 PM	#2
sta94 Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 16	Some more photos: Is there a specific name for knives/swords like this? Is this an average, above-average, or below-average example? Any additional info? Thank you very much!

20th September 2009, 11:01 PM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,779	This swords called Golok, your blade is very nice. But it seems like the hilt is from a newer date, please show us the sheat. Regards, sajen

21st September 2009, 09:03 AM	#6
sta94 Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 16	Hi guys, thanks so much for the additional info and the links. Lots of info in there, I'll be digesting them slowly. So, you'd call this a Golok variant? I was initially thinking along the lines of Parang, seeing its similarity to a few photos of a Parang Nabur I saw recently. There is such a variety in SEAsian blade forms that it'll probably be a while before a beginner like me can sort them all out. As for this sword, to my amateurish eyes, the hilt and the scabbard seem to be made of a similar kind of wood (don't know the wood type). One side of the scabbard is lighter color than the other. Also the scabbard and hilt look like they're of around the same age. Don't know if this means that they came with the original blade or if they were replaced around the same time. The tang does not come out of the end of the hilt though, unlike the examples I see in the links posted. The first two photos I posted above shows the sword next to its wooden scabbard. I'm posting more pics below:

21st September 2009, 10:24 AM	#7
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 460	Hullo everybody! The blade appears to be made in the village/district of Tjikeroeh, which still exists today and is now spelt Cikeruh (any other form of current spelling is either born out of ignorance or a simple typo). It appears to be of good quality, considering the era and the fact that the manufacturing was a small village operation, which also turned out everyday utensils (i.e. not an armourer). In fact, the operation was generally a sort of village cooperative, with different households being involved in different parts of the manufacturing process. The blade was made at the end of the period when the village was producing swords for the colonial Dutch para-military/military (the Dutch shifted production of swords to Europe in 1898). The motif and the clip-point suggests that it was probably made for a European and not as a run-of-the-mill product. I call it a pedang as it does not follow the golok protocol. The hilt and scabbard are also atypical for a local pedang. Best,

21st September 2009, 12:51 PM	#8
sta94 Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 16	Hi Amuk, thanks for the additional info, much appreciated!

21st September 2009, 05:28 PM	#9
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Because this type of daggers was made for the Dutch and after european standards I wouldn't call this nor a Golok nor a Pedang. The shape of this dagger is more that of a Hartsvanger (Dutch) or as the Germans call it a Hirschfanger.

21st September 2009, 10:46 PM	#10
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	I agree with Henk. These weapons where not made for indonesian people. In that case I can not Imagine that there would be a date and name. The shape is indeed of a hartsvanger and also the handguards often follow hartvangers designs. Ps. this summer I visted family in France and I saw a golok with also a inscription, but then tjikeru or something like that. The owner told me that he bought it in the 70' and that it was made before his own eyes in a workshop in Jakarta, using old car springs. So I can imagine that the name Tjikeroeh was also used in other locations.

22nd September 2009, 12:51 AM	#11
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,779	After looking again to the complete piece I have to agree with Henk and Willem, it look indeed like a "Hirschfänger" and in this case the handle and sheat would be original. sajen

22nd September 2009, 01:17 AM	#12
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 460	Hi everybody, I see the usual problem of naming an article. It is definitely not a golok. However, it was made in Soenda and it is a short sword (by European standards). The Soenda generic word for sword is 'pedang'.(BTW... I should emphasise that the piece is a good quality commercial piece, not as good as a military piece ) Are we going to quibble and be pedantic about whether it should be called a shortsword/hunting-sword/hunting-dagger/forestry-sword/forestry-dagger (English), hirschfanger (German) or hartsvanger (Dutch)? As for the bit about the Jakarta workshop,.... Not surprising! Ref. saying:'Ada doeit....can do it....' ...anything can be done for the right money..... Hence....CAVEAT EMPTORRR!! If we want to play the blame game... Quite a few vendors/dealers (especially from Europe where prices are relatively higher than in the USA) go to Indo once or twice a year to stock up. Some among them have 'special requests'. ......Big Brother is watching.... Best,

22nd September 2009, 05:31 AM	#13
sta94 Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 16	hmmmm ... interesting ... very interesting. Thanks for all the additional info. Really appreciate it. I paid a decent amount but thankfully not too much for this piece, so I will not be laying awake at nights! Also, I really like it. Really great to know all the extra stuff you guys mentioned.

22nd September 2009, 05:40 AM	#14
sta94 Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 16	BTW, a lot of the photos I posted above seem to be showing up as red Xs. Are you guys seeing the same? Usually I use pics saved on photobucket, which show up oretty big. But to save space I decreased their size on Picasa and posted them here. Anything I'm doing wrong? Thanks!

22nd September 2009, 03:26 PM	#15
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Better if you upload photos directly to the site ; then they won't disappear in the future .