Luzon itak?

Sajen · 20th November 2013, 08:20 PM

Just win this Luzon bolo, think it is an itak? Am I correct? I like the unusal shape of the blade. Sadly there is no scabbard. 27" long.

What you think about?

Battara · 21st November 2013, 12:05 AM

Yes you are correct. Might even be Tagalog.......

Sajen · 21st November 2013, 06:58 PM

Thank you Jose!

Can you explain please the different between a Luzon and Tagalog itak?

Regards,

Detlef

Battara · 22nd November 2013, 12:26 AM

Well, Luzon is the northern large island of the Philippines. The Tagalog "tribe" or ethno-linguistic group lives on the southern part of Luzon. Since there are several groups living on Luzon, pinpointing to what group a piece belongs is obviously even better.

I hope I wasn't confusing.

Sajen · 22nd November 2013, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Well, Luzon is the northern large island of the Philippines. The Tagalog "tribe" or ethno-linguistic group lives on the southern part of Luzon. Since there are several groups living on Luzon, pinpointing to what group a piece belongs is obviously even better.

I hope I wasn't confusing.

Thank you for clarification! No, you wasn't confusing, but I was unsure.

Robert · 22nd November 2013, 11:51 PM

Great sword Detlef. The seven sided hilt on this piece I believe to be a rarer form than the more common octagon or tear-drop shaped ones. Very nice catch.

Robert

Sajen · 23rd November 2013, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert

Great sword Detlef. The seven sided hilt on this piece I believe to be a rarer form than the more common octagon or tear-drop shaped ones. Very nice catch.

Robert

Thank you Robert,

frankly said I don't have seen a seven sided hilt before. I wonder if you haven't seen it at the bay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-SWOR...vip=true&rt=nc) , I think it was a little bargain.

Regards,

Detlef

Robert · 23rd November 2013, 11:08 AM

Trust me, if I had seen this listing before you did I would be the one posting it here.

Sajen · 23rd November 2013, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert

Trust me, if I had seen this listing before you did I would be the one posting it here.

Timo Nieminen · 24th November 2013, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert

The seven sided hilt on this piece I believe to be a rarer form than the more common octagon or tear-drop shaped ones.

This made me look at my septagonal-hilted bolo. It's rather touristirific, with a fat chunky grip. Nice blade; I used it as a working blade this morning. The state of my camera keeps me from posting photos at the moment

Sajen · 5th December 2013, 05:39 PM

Have received the itak, good heavy and old sword with a fault. Someone have regrind the very last tip of the blade very unprofessional. Here some pictures.

Sajen · 5th December 2013, 05:41 PM

Sajen · 2nd July 2014, 09:03 PM

Also at this blade my friend has worked and has done a very good job! I wasn't happy with badly grinded tip of the blade which now look good again. The blade has get also a polish and etch and shows a subtle lamination. Interestingly there are visible on both sides of the blade two finger prints after etching. My friend told me that he has seen them after etching and has polished this places again but after etching they has been visible again!

He think that it could be that a previous owner has touched the blade with bloody fingers. Here some pictures.

Robert · 3rd July 2014, 11:02 PM

Hello Detlef, Your friend has done another very nice job of straightening out the damaged point on this piece too. As for why the fingerprints on the blade keep showing up after etching, I am afraid that I cannot be of any help in trying to explain why this keeps happening. Being less than graceful I unfortunately am prone to lacerating my fingertips on a regular basis when cleaning certain items in my collection and have never had this happen. Even after having the blood remain on the piece for several days it has always cleaned up with no problems and never shown up after etching.

Best,
Robert

Ian · 4th July 2014, 04:37 AM

Hi Detlef:

I've not seen blood stains on a blade survive a good polish and etch before. Generally these are the same as rust. If you take the surface off, then the stain should not return.

Instead of fingerprints I think the marks may be "chatter" arising from grinding of the blade. If you look at the close up pictures of the brass, you can see residual lines from grinding also. A little persistent rust within the grooves on the blade would lead to a recurring pattern on re-etching. Removing more metal would likely solve the problem.

Given the sloppy work done previously along the back edge near the tip, I wonder if this was previously one of the long knives that the Spanish required Filipinos to square off the tip and "de-weaponize" in the late 19th C. When the owner wanted to make it more weapon-like, he could have ground back the original squared off end to create something more deadly. Just a thought.

Ian.

Sajen · 4th July 2014, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Hi Detlef:

I've not seen blood stains on a blade survive a good polish and etch before. Generally these are the same as rust. If you take the surface off, then the stain should not return.

Instead of fingerprints I think the marks may be "chatter" arising from grinding of the blade. If you look at the close up pictures of the brass, you can see residual lines from grinding also. A little persistent rust within the grooves on the blade would lead to a recurring pattern on re-etching. Removing more metal would likely solve the problem.

Hi Ian,

agree with you, it look clearly like rust. My first thought have been that the prints are from touching the blade after neutralization with etching solution. After receiving the sword I've tried to polish away the "print" on one side with steel wool without success. I think that I have to living with it.

Regards,
Detlef

20th November 2013, 08:20 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,769	Luzon itak? Just win this Luzon bolo, think it is an itak? Am I correct? I like the unusal shape of the blade. Sadly there is no scabbard. 27" long. What you think about? Attached Images

5th December 2013, 05:39 PM	#11
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,769	Have received the itak, good heavy and old sword with a fault. Someone have regrind the very last tip of the blade very unprofessional. Here some pictures. Attached Images

5th December 2013, 05:41 PM	#12
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,769	Last edited by Sajen; 5th December 2013 at 05:43 PM. Reason: double post, sorry!

2nd July 2014, 09:03 PM	#13
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,769	Also at this blade my friend has worked and has done a very good job! I wasn't happy with badly grinded tip of the blade which now look good again. The blade has get also a polish and etch and shows a subtle lamination. Interestingly there are visible on both sides of the blade two finger prints after etching. My friend told me that he has seen them after etching and has polished this places again but after etching they has been visible again! He think that it could be that a previous owner has touched the blade with bloody fingers. Here some pictures. Attached Images Last edited by Sajen; 2nd July 2014 at 11:32 PM.

21st November 2013, 12:05 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Yes you are correct. Might even be Tagalog.......

21st November 2013, 06:58 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,769	Thank you Jose! Can you explain please the different between a Luzon and Tagalog itak? Regards, Detlef

22nd November 2013, 12:26 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Well, Luzon is the northern large island of the Philippines. The Tagalog "tribe" or ethno-linguistic group lives on the southern part of Luzon. Since there are several groups living on Luzon, pinpointing to what group a piece belongs is obviously even better. I hope I wasn't confusing.

22nd November 2013, 11:51 PM	#6
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Great sword Detlef. The seven sided hilt on this piece I believe to be a rarer form than the more common octagon or tear-drop shaped ones. Very nice catch. Robert

23rd November 2013, 11:08 AM	#8
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Trust me, if I had seen this listing before you did I would be the one posting it here.

3rd July 2014, 11:02 PM	#14
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Detlef, Your friend has done another very nice job of straightening out the damaged point on this piece too. As for why the fingerprints on the blade keep showing up after etching, I am afraid that I cannot be of any help in trying to explain why this keeps happening. Being less than graceful I unfortunately am prone to lacerating my fingertips on a regular basis when cleaning certain items in my collection and have never had this happen. Even after having the blood remain on the piece for several days it has always cleaned up with no problems and never shown up after etching. Best, Robert

4th July 2014, 04:37 AM	#15
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,197	Hi Detlef: I've not seen blood stains on a blade survive a good polish and etch before. Generally these are the same as rust. If you take the surface off, then the stain should not return. Instead of fingerprints I think the marks may be "chatter" arising from grinding of the blade. If you look at the close up pictures of the brass, you can see residual lines from grinding also. A little persistent rust within the grooves on the blade would lead to a recurring pattern on re-etching. Removing more metal would likely solve the problem. Given the sloppy work done previously along the back edge near the tip, I wonder if this was previously one of the long knives that the Spanish required Filipinos to square off the tip and "de-weaponize" in the late 19th C. When the owner wanted to make it more weapon-like, he could have ground back the original squared off end to create something more deadly. Just a thought. Ian.