Another African find.

Freddy · 25th August 2006, 07:05 PM

This one came from the same German auction site.

It's a sickle knife of the Baali-tribe (related to the Mangbetu), living in Congo.

The blade measures 30 cm. This piece came without a handle, so I tried to make one myself. I only have to stain it. What do you think ?

Tim Simmons · 25th August 2006, 07:15 PM

I would just leave it as it is. Stain it and French polish it like furniture if you have the elbow grease.

Congoblades · 25th August 2006, 07:27 PM

Hi Freddy, well done, what kind of wood did you use for the handle? looks very nice.

Freddy · 25th August 2006, 08:02 PM

I just took a piece of wood from my shed. Nothing special. Something you find in every do-it-yourself shop. It's easy to carve as it's relatively soft. I looked at the handle of a Mangbetu knife in my collection and tried to copy it.
It's not yet finished. I have still some sanding to do. But the sickle knife looks better with a handle.

Flavio · 25th August 2006, 08:04 PM

Seems pine or fir

Tim Simmons · 25th August 2006, 08:10 PM

You could work on it with shoe polish. It will never be like a polished tropical hard wood but I think you could get a good colour and some shine with black and brown shoe polish. Maybe rub it with an oil pastel first?

VANDOO · 26th August 2006, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

I would just leave it as it is. Stain it and French polish it like furniture if you have the elbow grease.

FRENCH POLISH IT

DOES THAT MEAN YOU HAVE TO USE YOUR TONGUE TO POLISH IT WITH

SERIOUSLY WOOD WILL LOOK BETTER IF IT IS STAINED DARKER OR IT WOULD LOOK NICE IN WHITE IF IVORY WAS USED. NICE KNIFE AND INTERESTING SHAPE FOR THE HANDLE IS IT BASED ON A COMPLETE EXAMPLE?

Tim Simmons · 26th August 2006, 04:47 PM

Steady!!! French polishing is certainly better than the latin name.

Rick · 26th August 2006, 05:06 PM

Everybody out of the gutter !!

Seriously though; possibly you should consider trying to smooth carve it ; did most of your average African wood workers even have sandpaper ??
Possibly going over it with a well sharpened block plane set fine would give a nice rustic finish .
I have used this approach on a larger scale on sawn Yellow Pine beams to make them appear hand hewn .

Freddy · 27th August 2006, 12:48 PM

This is what I used to carve the handle : an Opinel knife n° 8

As to the sandpaper, it's true that most African carvers wouldn't be able to obtain this. But I know they used something similar : coarse leaves of certain plants.

As an example for the one I'm trying to make, I used some handles of Mangbetu knives in my collection.

The Double D · 27th August 2006, 01:31 PM

They probably scraped it smooth with the edge of a metal tool then smoothed it further by rubbing it with a paste of sand/dirt/water. Or they rubbed it with a rough stone, like a sand stone.

Another method was burnishing by rubbing it with smooth hard stone or a rounded piece of metal.

katana · 27th August 2006, 02:24 PM

I'm wondering whether the original handles were 'turned' on a primative lathe.... you would only need something like this ... a pole lathe....easily made from local timber and cordage.... these were in common use in medievel Europe and Asia. The cord is wrapped around the 'working' piece, as the pedal is pushed down, the cord 'spins' the wood one way, The branch attached to the other end of the cord is pulled down (putting it under tension) By releasing pressure on the pedal, the branch 'springs' back pulling the cord and 'spins' the 'worked piece' in the opposite direction......then the operation is continually repeated. As the wood is spun it can be worked with a knife of chisel.....as on a 'normal' lathe.

Battara · 28th August 2006, 08:31 PM

Good point (like the one on top of my head

) Katana. There is nothing like a good lathe.

Freddy · 6th October 2006, 07:46 PM

I finally found some time to finish this piece. Have a look :

Mapico1 · 7th October 2006, 04:17 PM

Freddy,this type of knife has a different handle than the Mangbetu ones.

Mapico1 · 7th October 2006, 04:20 PM

pic forgotten,sorry

Freddy · 7th October 2006, 04:32 PM

I think, you're right. Perhaps, when I have some more time, I will make another (more slender) one.

Lew · 7th October 2006, 04:35 PM

Here is a pic of a Sudanese lathe and craftsman.

Lew

Mapico1 · 7th October 2006, 04:49 PM

Freddy,
or this type of handle also Bali..
In ieder geval wat smaller....
Greetz

Freddy · 7th October 2006, 04:57 PM

Danny, I just saw a picture in www.Mambele.be of a Budu sickle knife, which resembles mine. The handle on this one is also more of the Mangbetu-type.

25th August 2006, 07:05 PM	#1
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Another African find. This one came from the same German auction site. It's a sickle knife of the Baali-tribe (related to the Mangbetu), living in Congo. The blade measures 30 cm. This piece came without a handle, so I tried to make one myself. I only have to stain it. What do you think ?

27th August 2006, 02:24 PM	#12
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	I'm wondering whether the original handles were 'turned' on a primative lathe.... you would only need something like this ... a pole lathe....easily made from local timber and cordage.... these were in common use in medievel Europe and Asia. The cord is wrapped around the 'working' piece, as the pedal is pushed down, the cord 'spins' the wood one way, The branch attached to the other end of the cord is pulled down (putting it under tension) By releasing pressure on the pedal, the branch 'springs' back pulling the cord and 'spins' the 'worked piece' in the opposite direction......then the operation is continually repeated. As the wood is spun it can be worked with a knife of chisel.....as on a 'normal' lathe. Attached Images Last edited by katana; 27th August 2006 at 02:35 PM.

6th October 2006, 07:46 PM	#14
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	final result I finally found some time to finish this piece. Have a look :

7th October 2006, 04:17 PM	#15
Mapico1 Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 86	Bali knife Freddy,this type of knife has a different handle than the Mangbetu ones.

7th October 2006, 04:20 PM	#16
Mapico1 Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 86	Bali pic forgotten,sorry Attached Images

25th August 2006, 07:15 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,783	I would just leave it as it is. Stain it and French polish it like furniture if you have the elbow grease.

25th August 2006, 07:27 PM	#3
Congoblades Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Belgium Posts: 171	Hi Freddy, well done, what kind of wood did you use for the handle? looks very nice.

25th August 2006, 08:02 PM	#4
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	I just took a piece of wood from my shed. Nothing special. Something you find in every do-it-yourself shop. It's easy to carve as it's relatively soft. I looked at the handle of a Mangbetu knife in my collection and tried to copy it. It's not yet finished. I have still some sanding to do. But the sickle knife looks better with a handle.

25th August 2006, 08:04 PM	#5
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Seems pine or fir

25th August 2006, 08:10 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,783	You could work on it with shoe polish. It will never be like a polished tropical hard wood but I think you could get a good colour and some shine with black and brown shoe polish. Maybe rub it with an oil pastel first?

26th August 2006, 04:47 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,783	Steady!!! French polishing is certainly better than the latin name.

26th August 2006, 05:06 PM	#9
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,288	Everybody out of the gutter !! Seriously though; possibly you should consider trying to smooth carve it ; did most of your average African wood workers even have sandpaper ?? Possibly going over it with a well sharpened block plane set fine would give a nice rustic finish . I have used this approach on a larger scale on sawn Yellow Pine beams to make them appear hand hewn .

27th August 2006, 12:48 PM	#10
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	This is what I used to carve the handle : an Opinel knife n° 8 As to the sandpaper, it's true that most African carvers wouldn't be able to obtain this. But I know they used something similar : coarse leaves of certain plants. As an example for the one I'm trying to make, I used some handles of Mangbetu knives in my collection.

27th August 2006, 01:31 PM	#11
The Double D Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: On the banks of Cut Bank Creek, Montana Posts: 189	They probably scraped it smooth with the edge of a metal tool then smoothed it further by rubbing it with a paste of sand/dirt/water. Or they rubbed it with a rough stone, like a sand stone. Another method was burnishing by rubbing it with smooth hard stone or a rounded piece of metal.

28th August 2006, 08:31 PM	#13
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,200	Good point (like the one on top of my head ) Katana. There is nothing like a good lathe.

7th October 2006, 04:32 PM	#17
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	I think, you're right. Perhaps, when I have some more time, I will make another (more slender) one.

7th October 2006, 04:35 PM	#18
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Here is a pic of a Sudanese lathe and craftsman. Lew Attached Images

7th October 2006, 04:49 PM	#19
Mapico1 Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 86	Bali knife Freddy, or this type of handle also Bali.. In ieder geval wat smaller.... Greetz Attached Images

7th October 2006, 04:57 PM	#20
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Danny, I just saw a picture in www.Mambele.be of a Budu sickle knife, which resembles mine. The handle on this one is also more of the Mangbetu-type.