![]() |
![]() |
#1 |
Lead Moderator European Armoury
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
|
![]()
Just acquired in a London arms fair.
I would call it a 1X2 scale as it measures 22 cms. in hight. I understand this is a tournament helm, but would like to know more about it, like: is this the reproduction of a specific known helm, exhibited in a museum or collection ? Is the term "frog mouth" well attributed to this model ? Was it a fashion of the XV century? Any comment will be so much appreciated. I am more interested in the chronicle of this device in its original version than in this miniature itself ... although i find it rather well made and appealing ![]() . |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 214
|
![]()
Fernando, this appears to be a very well made ( with some age to it ) reduced size version of the final developement of the frog mouthed jousting helmet. This type with fluted skull would date to the end of the 15th century and start of the 16th. While I cannot refer you to one specific helmet this is meant to be a copy of, there are a number of late one with fluted top/skull plates. Ffoulkes, in The Armourer And His Craft, has a picture of as part of a complete jousting harenss for the Stechzeug ( joust with sharp lances ) from the end of the 15th/ begining of the 16th century on page 5. On page 89 he has an illustration of another with fluted skull ( Austrian I think and again end of 15th/begining of 16th century ) as well and an illustration of the sort of liner that was laced into these helmets. Stones Guide has pics ( front and back ) of another complete harness for the Stechzeug, dated about 1500, with fluted skull on page 36. I know as part of the gothic revival of the Victorian era there was an increased interest in armour for display, the quality of manufacture varying widely from excellent ( fully functional well made ) to simply display ( it looks like a helmet at a distance but don't get real close to it or you'll know its a fake ). Included in this was the manufacture of minature armours and components. The attention to detail on this piece of yours is excellent, looking at least based on your pics like a half sized version, but otehrwise built in all respects like a full sized functional helmet.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 214
|
![]()
A few links to examples of the type with fluted skulls http://www.myarmoury.com/view.html?f...ot_ghelm14.jpg
http://www.myarmoury.com/view.html?f...ot_ghelm12.jpg http://www.myarmoury.com/albums/disp...864&fullsize=1 |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Lead Moderator European Armoury
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
|
![]()
Outstanding response, Allan.
A fistfull of tracks to follow the subject; impossible to be more pleasant. Now i will have to digest such an amount of information. For a start i enjoyed seeing a specimen with a 'hinged buckle' like in mine, that of the third link of your second post. I happen to have Stone's guide; thanks for calling my attention to page 36. This example appears to be the same as the one from the Bashford Dean collection in the Metropolitan Museum, featured in a Bulletin i recalled yesterday having bought in the Museum shop when i was there. Once more thanks a lot for the comprehensive enligthening. By the way, i am attaching pictures of the interior. You are an armourer; how old would you say this helm is, within a range of consensual failure. . |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 | |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 214
|
![]() Quote:
My best guess would be high end Victorian reproduction by a top notch guy like Ernst Schmidt http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_schmidt.html |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 |
Lead Moderator European Armoury
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
|
![]()
I got you Allan.
... and for some reason i don't remember (an original or replica rapier discussion ?) i had already learnt about Ernst Schmidt skills. I am much obliged for your treatise on helmets. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 214
|
![]()
My pleasure Nando. Victorian work has to a degree come into its own in the last 10 years or so and i've seen several examples of Mr. Schmidts work command prices on par with middle to munnitions quality 16th century armour in the last few years. This is a very neat item and something i've never seen before. I've seen several of the exactingly made miniature armours that were made in the 19th century but not such an exacting reduced scale reproduction of a single element.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
Posts: 88
|
![]()
If this were mine, I would call it "a helm of a miniature!"
Peter |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 | |
Lead Moderator European Armoury
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
|
![]() Quote:
![]() ![]() ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 |
Lead Moderator European Armoury
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
|
![]()
Is it my imagination or do we have here a maker's mark ?
![]() . |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 | |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 214
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 | |
Lead Moderator European Armoury
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#13 |
Lead Moderator European Armoury
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
|
![]()
Through some 'intense' research i found out the person who sold me the helm is a Gentleman called Terry English, an armour master smith who has been making the arms and armour for the actors of various known films.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#14 | |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 214
|
![]() Quote:
I've been thinking about this helmet since you found the stamp. I don't know if it possible to reach Terry for his thoughts on it, but while I can think of no reason for constructing a minature version of this in the period while they were in use ( which I can for the Victorian Gothic revival ), the attention to detail as well as the stamp, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he thought it to be a period piece. It's certainly made that way. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#15 |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 93
|
![]()
In olden times many factories would make miniatures of such items as farm equipment, furniture, stoves and such so a salesman could carry many examples to show prospective clients what they would be buying. This worked well in America because of the great distances to travel and difficulty in moving goods. I do not know if this would be applicable to armor in Europe as it would require more personal fitting and I think perhaps the distances traveled between manufacture and customer may not be so great. Beautiful helm no matter what.
Last edited by machinist; 16th March 2013 at 03:14 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|