Spanish colonial short sword?

[Yvain]

Hi all!



I found this interesting short sword for cheap some days ago. It is very similar to some other short swords identified as Mexican or Spanish colonial, including on this forum (see the last three pictures).



It seems well made, but surprisingly the blade isn't shaperned (and I don't mean dull but truly unsharpened). However the blade is peened, flexes a bit, and seem to be wide at the guard. It feels rather balanced and lively in the hand.



So far I have three guesses :


-it's a repro : it would surprise me considering this is a rather obscure weapon, and the general quality seems too good for a repro


-the blade was meant to be sharpened by the buyer : doesn't seem to weird to me, I think it was done for some tools


-the blade has been ground later in its life : possible, but I don't know why someone would do that


Would love to hear what you think about it! 🙂

[Interested Party]

I had never to consider these finger loops before. A way of fingering the blade while keeping the pointer finger below the guard. I interesting adaption for a primarily thrusting weapon that could be facing a primarily cutting weapon. I am going to have to find more images of swords and knives with this type of guard.

As to the grind. No edge grind at all? How thick is the edge. I remember having a 1903 Lee Enfield bayonet still stored in cosmoline that I do not believe had any kind of edge grind.

[Jim McDougall]

This appears to be what is termed in Levine (1985) as Central American dirk, and the finger ring hilt characteristic, as is the sectioned grip with central bulge. These are remarkably similar to what Adams (1985) terms 'round tang espadas' which seem to have been popular in Mexican regions to the central and south in times around the revolution for independence (1821).

These multibar guards became well known as influenced by European sword styles and were around until about mid century. Still the grips with these sectioned center separation apparently remained in favor throughout formerly Spanish regions into Central and South America.

This particular form of 'dirk' seems well known, and while we cannot be certain of exclusive Central American provenance as exclusive, these likely became popularly known through the Spanish American war period, where many of these kinds of weapons were collected as souvenirs.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

I had never to consider these finger loops before. A way of fingering the blade while keeping the pointer finger below the guard. I interesting adaption for a primarily thrusting weapon that could be facing a primarily cutting weapon. I am going to have to find more images of swords and knives with this type of guard...

If i well understand your question, this is an implement not so rare to find in swords, whether more crude or more sophisticaded. We call it gatilho (trigger) in local lexicon.


.

[Yvain]

Thanks for your answers!



It is rather hard to measure the edge since I don't have calipers at hand, but I definitely see no grind, and the edge is roughly 1mm thick in the first half of the blade, roughly 0.7mm thick on the second part, and it thickens back to 2mm at the point.


Jim, thanks a lot for the detailed information! What do you think of this specimen in itself?

[Jim McDougall]

Fernando, thank you for posting those breath taking sabers! and as always, adding the colorful terms for these features. It really adds to the dynamics of descriptions to have such terms in local and period vernacular.

Yvain, I like the dirk very much as I have always been drawn to the rustic charm of these kinds of simple weapons. These kinds of weapons are more likely to be historically associated with the ever present strife in much of Latin America with insurgencies and embattled governments. As of course most insurgent forces were comprised basically of local peasantry, and these kinds of arms often became ersatz weapons used as they were all that was at hand.

These are not much covered in the literature, but this could be around turn of the century, possibly as early as Spanish American war, but more likely a bit later. They must have been produced in good number as they have turned up quite a bit over the years.

[kronckew]

My sinle edged espada ancha, for comparison. It is razor sharp. One of my favourites.

[Jim McDougall]

Nice Wayne!
These hilts really got around!

[Yvain]

Thanks Kronckew, very interesting to see this hilt paired with a more traditional Mexican machete blade and scabbard.


I'm back home and thus have access to my (basic) callipers, which allowed me to confirm that the lenticular blade of my sword has some distal taper, being 4mm thick at the spine near the guard, and 2mm thick at the tip.

[Jim McDougall]

The so called espada ancha as noted, has many variations, and these were often made by local blacksmiths, often using repurposed components and locally forged blades.
The term 'espada ancha' is actually a modern misnomer which came into use in the 1960s after misunderstanding that term used in 18th c regulations being translated. In local parlance in period, these were termed 'machete' , as per Woodward (1946).

This grouping shows just how widely ranged the variants of these primarily utilitarian weapons were, including the one at the top which was comprised of a cut down dragoon blade; three bar cavalry hilt and the grip of an old briquet.
Some of these like the horn grip with largely full length dragoon blade were popular in the late 18th c. from Sinaloa into Alta California.

[Yvain]

Very interesting grouping Jim ! From your own collection ? The one at the top with the briquet hilt is very cool, I'd like to make a repro of it !

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Yvain

Very interesting grouping Jim ! From your own collection ? The one at the top with the briquet hilt is very cool, I'd like to make a repro of it !

Thank you very much!!! Yes, these are my own collection, many of which are featured in the article I wrote and published in "Review of the Swedish Arms and Armour Society New Series XXXIV",
"The Espada Ancha and Machete of Northern Mexican Frontiers and Spanish Southwest From the 18th through 19th Centuries".

The top item is a good example of how these ersatz weapons were fabricated in frontier regions of Mexico using repurposed components of older weapons. While obviously entirely incongruent and ungainly in appearance, the objective was to have a working weapon.

Wayne's example in post #7 illustrates just how wide ranged the combining of components often were, and why these rustic frontier weapons are so fascinating.