2nd February 2018, 09:48 PM | #1 |
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Unusual gunpowder flask
Hi
I just picked up a job lot of items, interesting box of various shot and powder dispensers All are standard enough mid to late 19 century However this one has a mechanism I have never seen before It is silver hallmarked on the neck of the flask but I think the main components are nickel It looks as if you inverted the flask, opened the lever to dispense the powder, filled the cap and then the cap swivels through 90 degrees and you can then pour the powder into the gun. Lots of mechanism and complicated to manafacture. The retaining leaf spring to stop the cap from falling open is broken and the adjustment mechanism to allow various chardes to be dispensed is jamed The flask itself is quiet rotten but the mechanism is overall not too bad. The weight is in drams and it has the word patent on it so I assume English. Can anyone shed some light on if this is a rarity, I def8nstely have never seen similar If anyone can identify hallmarks I would be delighted to know any info in this regards as well Regards Ken Size of flask is standard approx 150 mm rifle, shotgun flask |
3rd February 2018, 12:58 AM | #2 | |
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3rd February 2018, 07:47 AM | #3 |
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Hi
Here you go I think Sheffield Tudor rose is the first mark But I would be making a stab in the dark really Cheers Ken |
3rd February 2018, 09:11 AM | #4 |
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The "s" stands for the year 1854
corrado26 |
3rd February 2018, 09:45 AM | #5 |
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Thanks Corrado
Am I correct in the Sheffield atributation? Also have you ever seen a similar mechanism for powder dispensing. I assume it was designed so that you did not have to put your thumb over the top of the spout, probably something a gentleman should not have to do to getting his thumb dirty. But quiet a complex solution to a simple operation. Regards Ken |
3rd February 2018, 10:07 AM | #6 |
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More of a safety measure I would think, in case of a lingering spark in the barrel.
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3rd February 2018, 11:22 AM | #7 |
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The first mark on the left probably is not the Tudor Rose, but the crown-mark of Sheffield. The listings found in the net show the silver hallmarks and I don't know wether these have been in use for brass too. So it is very uncertain to interpret their meaning.
The second mark from the left is certainly a "D", this and the next mark are unknown and the last one should be - if it were silver - the date letter "s", what in Sheffield stands for silver made in 1910. This date I think is very late, probably too late for the flask. |
3rd February 2018, 12:09 PM | #8 | |
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There would be a different path towards deciphering those marks ... assuming they are for silver, and not for silver plate or another composition . |
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3rd February 2018, 01:34 PM | #9 |
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If these are British silver hallmarks they dont really make much sense ... either that , of they are too worn for my eyes to make sense of them !
There has to be the following : a Standard mark ( to indicate it is Sterling Silver ) , a City mark , a Date Letter , and a Makers Mark. The makers mark , normally initials, always comes last & try as I may I cant discern anything from the last set of marks. Equally I am struggling to see a Standard Mark here , which would be a Lion Passant for this period ... w/o the standard mark , we are not dealing with silver and therefore cannot date it. It may be silverplate ... which is well known for its 'lookalike' 'hallmarks' often enigmatically designed to mislead the buyer . |
3rd February 2018, 02:53 PM | #10 |
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I think you all are correct that it is a dubious mark to simulate a hallmark.
As for the mechanism has anyone seen examples of a similar set up before Thanks for the interest. Ken |
3rd February 2018, 04:28 PM | #11 | |
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4th February 2018, 03:53 AM | #12 |
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As stated above, this type of top was a safety device, as occasionally 'normal_flasks would blow up on charging a barrel containing a spark.
Some tops looked like the regular, but were warranted fireproof. This type of top appears to have been used more in France than the UK,. Anyone with the Powder Flask Book will see many variations. Sorry though, I don't own the book! It's a nice one to have, and much scarcer than the usual types. |
4th February 2018, 01:03 PM | #13 | |
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Quite often they have four letters which resemble 'hallmarks' which are E.P.N.S. meaning that the item is Electro Plated Nickel Silver. Another is E.P.B.M. a lesser quality product similar to pewter, Electro Plated Britania Metal. I'm not sure that the manufacturers, many of whom were high class establishments, were deliberately trying to mislead the buyers or whether they were catering for a demand from buyers who preffered to own items that would appear to be more expensive than they were. Check out my next post for an update on the makers marks Last edited by Mel H; 4th February 2018 at 03:43 PM. |
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4th February 2018, 01:51 PM | #14 | |
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Additionally with reference to the markings. Quote From Martin Rywell. Dixon & Sons. James Dixon was a firm founded in 1804, their mark was, Dixon, until 1806. From 1806 till 1830 their mark was a D and S separated by a rose. Last edited by Mel H; 4th February 2018 at 03:47 PM. |
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4th February 2018, 03:43 PM | #15 |
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IT looks like you may well have cracked it, Mel!
I did not know that Dixon marked flasks in this manner. I'm from Ormesby area. I see you too are from the NE. Can I ask Roughly where? |
4th February 2018, 03:50 PM | #16 | |
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4th February 2018, 08:12 PM | #17 |
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Thanks all for the information
Looks like I have picked up a rare beast, came with 5 leather shot dispensers and 3 other powder dispensers All came in an RIC Barack’s box with a mixture of other items, handcuffs baton The barrels off A double barrel percussion gun etc Looks like a lot of maybe siezed ordinance and related items, all I was after was the handcuffs baton and pouch so nice to get a bonus item. The metal on the bottom of the flask is rotten through unfortunately Cheers Ken |
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