have to get one, need help

shangrila · 8th September 2006, 03:17 PM

Hi all,

I have read some materials such as posts, books and mags about WOOTZ, and think that I really need one......for their beautiful patterns.

There are two blades from which I can choose one. Here need help to recognise each one's authenticity, age and so on. Any opinion is important for me.

Many Thanks.

the longer one

shangrila · 8th September 2006, 03:18 PM

the longer one

shangrila · 8th September 2006, 03:19 PM

the shorter one

shangrila · 8th September 2006, 03:19 PM

the shorter one

By the way, can anyone give me some advice on prices? thanks again.

Ferguson · 8th September 2006, 04:22 PM

Well the shorter one is definitely wootz. The longer one, I don't see a pattern, but I'm no expert. It may take etching to bring it out. Forum rules prohibit discussions of price.

Welcome!

Steve Ferguson

shangrila · 8th September 2006, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferguson

Well the shorter one is definitely wootz. The longer one, I don't see a pattern, but I'm no expert. It may take etching to bring it out. Forum rules prohibit discussions of price.

Welcome!

Steve Ferguson, appreciate your inputs very much.

ariel · 8th September 2006, 06:13 PM

I agree: the shorter one is wootz. Take it if your doctor made the diagnosis of "acute wootz deficiency"
As to the big one.. I like it too. If you are not taking it, tell the owner to contavct me: I am developing symptoms of "chronic tulwar failure"

ErnestoJuan · 8th September 2006, 08:35 PM

I agree with the gents above.

The shorter one is definitely wootz.

I would take the longer one for the beautiful hilt and the other for the blade

Ian · 8th September 2006, 08:47 PM

Hi shangrila:

It is always hard to provide opinions from pictures. However, with that caveat, the longer one looks much the finer sword to me even though the shorter one has a beautiful blade pattern. I think the longer one is also quite a bit older than the shorter one.

If the price for each of these is the same, the longer one would be my preference of the two. You can always find another wootz-bladed sword, but the longer one looks a more "special" sword (perhaps a firangi) to me and one I would be pleased to have in my collection.

Ian.

Rivkin · 8th September 2006, 08:54 PM

Can I ask a stupid generic question ? India borders Iran, but does not border Ottoman lands. While then we constantly see indian swords with yelmans, indian yataghans, but almost never see indian super-curved shamshirs ?

Battara · 8th September 2006, 09:08 PM

I also agree with the wootzers - however, the first one I think I do see a pattern in the first blade picture - more pattern welded than wootz.

B.I · 8th September 2006, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivkin

Can I ask a stupid generic question ? India borders Iran, but does not border Ottoman lands. While then we constantly see indian swords with yelmans, indian yataghans, but almost never see indian super-curved shamshirs ?

thats not a stupid question, just a slightly confusing one. what is a super-curved shamshir? there are many indian swords with persian blades, and many swords with indian blades, possibly made by persian artisans in india.
the ottoman empire's influence reached many areas, including india (through both moghul and especially the deccan, which was directly related to the ottoman royal family)
the persian influence is very apparant as well, so... still confused by the question :-)

katana · 8th September 2006, 11:37 PM

My vote.....as I'm in total agreement with Ian's comments....the larger...it's is really nice

shangrila · 9th September 2006, 04:26 AM

Dear Ferguson, ariel, ErnestoJuan, Ian, katana, Battara,

Gentlemen, Thank you for your kind instructions. The details of your analysis amaze me, and the enthusiasm in your words inspires me.

As a whole, I feel that the longer one is more 'popular' though I cann't yet confirm whether it's wootz or not. I guess the reason of its 'popular' in your posts is that all you guys have gotten wootz blades and are still chaseing more special ones. Am I right? I envy you all, indeed.

Ariel, as you said, I have the acute diagnosis.

will send you message for further learning, thank you.

Ian, would you like to talk a little bit more about the longer one in your opinion? that would help more. And thank you very much for the advice on judgement of purchase.

Battara, you're always great while analyzing details, craftwork and technics. Do you think the longer one is wootz?

and

Rivkin, B.I,

Thank you both for bring new information and knowledge to me. I do be interested in sorts of cultures and history around WOOTZ.

This forum is amazing~~~~~~

Ian · 9th September 2006, 04:55 AM

Hi shangrila:

The reasons I like the longer one is that it seems to have cleaner lines and looks more like an old weapon that has seen a few campaigns. The blade, with its broad fuller and "solid" look, the elegant Moghul hilt with curved guard and silver koftgari, all strike me as a well constructed original weapon. The blade reminds me of some of the firangi blades of the 17th-18th C, but it could be Indian and it could be wootz. Just an old warrior in good shape and with lots of appeal for me.

The heavily patterned blade on the shorter one is pretty, but to me it looks gaudy. Just doesn't stir my juices like the longer one.

Ian.

The Double D · 9th September 2006, 08:02 AM

How about posting an OAL of the shorter one outside the scabbard?

Battara · 9th September 2006, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shangrila

Battara, you're always great while analyzing details, craftwork and technics. Do you think the longer one is wootz?

Thank you. You are very kind.

Ok I don't get the length of these, so I'll do it this way:

The one with the silver koftgari work is pattern welded (not wootz) from what I can see and the one with a plainer hilt is wootz). Hope this helps clear some things.

8th September 2006, 03:17 PM	#1
shangrila Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 31	have to get one, need help Hi all, I have read some materials such as posts, books and mags about WOOTZ, and think that I really need one......for their beautiful patterns. There are two blades from which I can choose one. Here need help to recognise each one's authenticity, age and so on. Any opinion is important for me. Many Thanks. the longer one Last edited by shangrila; 8th September 2006 at 04:41 PM.

8th September 2006, 03:19 PM	#4
shangrila Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 31	the shorter one By the way, can anyone give me some advice on prices? thanks again. Last edited by shangrila; 8th September 2006 at 04:40 PM.

8th September 2006, 08:47 PM	#9
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Take them both ... Hi shangrila: It is always hard to provide opinions from pictures. However, with that caveat, the longer one looks much the finer sword to me even though the shorter one has a beautiful blade pattern. I think the longer one is also quite a bit older than the shorter one. If the price for each of these is the same, the longer one would be my preference of the two. You can always find another wootz-bladed sword, but the longer one looks a more "special" sword (perhaps a firangi) to me and one I would be pleased to have in my collection. Ian.

8th September 2006, 03:18 PM	#2
shangrila Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 31	the longer one

8th September 2006, 04:22 PM	#5
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Well the shorter one is definitely wootz. The longer one, I don't see a pattern, but I'm no expert. It may take etching to bring it out. Forum rules prohibit discussions of price. Welcome! Steve Ferguson

8th September 2006, 06:13 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I agree: the shorter one is wootz. Take it if your doctor made the diagnosis of "acute wootz deficiency" As to the big one.. I like it too. If you are not taking it, tell the owner to contavct me: I am developing symptoms of "chronic tulwar failure"

8th September 2006, 08:35 PM	#8
ErnestoJuan Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Europa Posts: 60	I agree with the gents above. The shorter one is definitely wootz. I would take the longer one for the beautiful hilt and the other for the blade

8th September 2006, 08:54 PM	#10
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	Can I ask a stupid generic question ? India borders Iran, but does not border Ottoman lands. While then we constantly see indian swords with yelmans, indian yataghans, but almost never see indian super-curved shamshirs ?

8th September 2006, 09:08 PM	#11
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	I also agree with the wootzers - however, the first one I think I do see a pattern in the first blade picture - more pattern welded than wootz.

8th September 2006, 11:37 PM	#13
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	My vote.....as I'm in total agreement with Ian's comments....the larger...it's is really nice

9th September 2006, 04:26 AM	#14
shangrila Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 31	Dear Ferguson, ariel, ErnestoJuan, Ian, katana, Battara, Gentlemen, Thank you for your kind instructions. The details of your analysis amaze me, and the enthusiasm in your words inspires me. As a whole, I feel that the longer one is more 'popular' though I cann't yet confirm whether it's wootz or not. I guess the reason of its 'popular' in your posts is that all you guys have gotten wootz blades and are still chaseing more special ones. Am I right? I envy you all, indeed. Ariel, as you said, I have the acute diagnosis. will send you message for further learning, thank you. Ian, would you like to talk a little bit more about the longer one in your opinion? that would help more. And thank you very much for the advice on judgement of purchase. Battara, you're always great while analyzing details, craftwork and technics. Do you think the longer one is wootz? and Rivkin, B.I, Thank you both for bring new information and knowledge to me. I do be interested in sorts of cultures and history around WOOTZ. This forum is amazing~~~~~~

9th September 2006, 04:55 AM	#15
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Hi shangrila: The reasons I like the longer one is that it seems to have cleaner lines and looks more like an old weapon that has seen a few campaigns. The blade, with its broad fuller and "solid" look, the elegant Moghul hilt with curved guard and silver koftgari, all strike me as a well constructed original weapon. The blade reminds me of some of the firangi blades of the 17th-18th C, but it could be Indian and it could be wootz. Just an old warrior in good shape and with lots of appeal for me. The heavily patterned blade on the shorter one is pretty, but to me it looks gaudy. Just doesn't stir my juices like the longer one. Ian.

9th September 2006, 08:02 AM	#16
The Double D Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: On the banks of Cut Bank Creek, Montana Posts: 189	How about posting an OAL of the shorter one outside the scabbard?