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5th June 2007, 06:59 AM
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#1 |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: ca, usa
Posts: 92
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First Keris
You never really appreciate how exciting it is until it's actually in your hands!
 This is the first Keris in my collection (one kris though  ). I may have paid a bit too much but I just really loved the aesthetics/form of the handle and blade and was very happy to find one like this. The keris is smaller than I expected (31cm ~ 12.5"overall), but that's ok. The piece needs a little TLC though (cleaning, scabbard restoration, and a mendak?). I don't know what the origin is (I'm still learning a lot); my best guess is that it's (mid?) 20th century Malaysian, but I would appreciate any input on region, age, etc.I have a couple of restoration questions too as I'm planning on cleaning the blade and restoring the scabbard. First: How would the blade surface be traditionally finished based on it's origin: a simple etch with citrus or a full "stain" with an arsenic compound? How widespread was the practice of treating blades with arsenic? The photos don't pick it up really well, but the blade seems to be well laminated. Second: I need to put an end cap on the scabbard, but traditionally would the end cap match the wood at the top or was it solely at the artist's discretion. I am thinking of using tagua nut (fake ivory) for the cap. I have seen this on some scabbards (not necessarily keris) using ivory and really like it. Any thoughts or input greatly appreciated. Thanks Last edited by t_c; 5th June 2007 at 07:13 AM. |
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5th June 2007, 08:27 AM
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#2 |
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 132
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Congratulation for your first keris. Yes !!! Beautiful indeed.
I think that is a Pattani keris typically originated from northern Malaysia (kelantan or Terengganu) or possibly southern Thailand. The dapur is Pandai Saras Luk 7. Using some citrus acid from lime would do good to restore the blade (etch). Not much of rust observed there. No need for warangan (arsenic). I would not bother to make the end cap (or buntut) with fake ivory. If you can't find ivory, a good hardwood would also do good. By the way the mendak is missing there. I leave the others to comment further. Overall, it is a nice piece. |
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5th June 2007, 09:52 AM
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#3 |
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,248
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A nice piece...
Congrats on your 1st keris. A rather nice piece.
I tend to agree with Newsteel's opinion, the profile is Northern Peninsular Malaysia or Southern Thailand, but in this case, most likely Pattani. The hilt is in the Northern Pekaka/Perkaka form, with a high balung (back of the hilt) and protuding beak-like feature. The sheath is nice, I especially like the pattern at the centre of the cross-piece. As mentioned, the pendokok/pendongkok (hilt cup) is missing. A silver pendokok would complement the piece. Here are some examples, click [here], and [here] for an openwork-style. As for the blade treatment, I suggest adopting Newsteel's suggestion. The lamination lines should appear more prominent afterwards. As for the end-piece, I stand by Newsteel's opinion. Now that you've bought your 1st piece, I wish you good luck... very soon you'll see it increase... 
Last edited by Alam Shah; 6th June 2007 at 02:19 AM. Reason: grammar... |
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5th June 2007, 10:26 PM
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#4 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,209
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I completely agree with Newsteel and Alam Shah. Nothing to add.
Very nice piece!! |
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6th June 2007, 01:22 AM
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#5 |
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Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,290
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Nice keris !
I agree with the others about the buntut; Tagua or Ivory might be a bit over the top; stick with wood. I might have a piece of dark Apple wood (about the shade of the wrongko) you can have gratis; it carves beautifully. |
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6th June 2007, 01:36 AM
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#6 |
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 132
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To add, having this good profile blade and that high balung pekaka hilt is a bonus. You may also want to buffer polish the scabbard and the stem (sampir and batang) to make it even better.
Geee... I myself haven't got the chance to collect a good Pattani keris. |
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6th June 2007, 04:20 AM
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#7 |
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Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
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Bugis or Malay?
Dear Shahrial, Newsteel, and All,
Yesterday, my friend from East Java sent me this sheath and two hilts. He had bought it for me somewhere around East Java, but unfortunately no keris inside. Just sheath and handles. Though, it is fascinating for me because this one is the first in my collection of such type of sheath. Is this Bugis, or Malay? And which type of handle is the better? I am showing you too, four types of handles, two of them I got from my friend yesterday. Please name the style of the handles, if you don't mind... Ganjawulung |
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6th June 2007, 02:15 PM
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#8 |
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Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,290
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I'd say that is a Bugis scabbard Ganja .
In my opinion the handle shown en suite with the scabbard is the correct, or should I say the more visually pleasing one. |
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6th June 2007, 06:40 PM
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#9 | |
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Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
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Quote:
Actually I might be ashamed with myself. An Indonesian, asking about Bugis sheath to you. Really I must 'learn' to know more on each details of Bugis keris, sheath and all the assesories.. Idem dito with Sumatra's keris. I know only a little, although sometimes somebody offered me in the past Sumatra kerises. Even Cirebonese kerises -- though only less than 300 km from Surakarta and Yogyakarta -- I am still trying to learn to know more. Thanks Rick for your advice... Ganjawulung |
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6th June 2007, 09:08 PM
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#10 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,209
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Don't be ashamed of yourself. As mentioned many times before, we all want to learn here.
Don't have the idea that a dutch knows everything about the Dutch stuff. And the knowledge about keris is a very long, long way. Have pleasure in discovering things and ask your questions, just like we do. And if you think you have an answer on a question we have, don't hestitate to give your opinion. Even when it turns out your opinion is not right you can learn from the opinion of other more knowledgeable members. |
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7th June 2007, 02:00 AM
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#11 | ||
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Member
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Location: Singapore
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Quote:
Quote:
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7th June 2007, 02:56 AM
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#12 |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: ca, usa
Posts: 92
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Thanks for the info everyone - I appreciate it!
After some more consideration, I think you guys are right, I'll stick with a dark wood for the end cap. Rick, Thanks for the offer, but I've been looking for a good excuse to make it down to the wood shop
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7th June 2007, 03:14 AM
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#13 | |
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Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
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Quote:
I will learn from you time to time. Especially for the knowledge on sheath, hilts, and assesories of kerises. Also the styles, one of the most important element of this keris world... Yeah, the style... Diversity of keris, but also all at once, the unity element in this keris world I am so sory, tc, I disturb your thread so much. But really, I am eager to have, someday, a Pattani style like yours. Fascinating style... Good luck, tc, and all... Ganjawulung |
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7th June 2007, 06:22 AM
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#14 |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: ca, usa
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ganjawulung
No disturbance at all, I like to hear everyone's questions and answers - we all learn that way. Keep the questions coming! Cheers |
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7th June 2007, 10:32 PM
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#15 |
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,254
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Hello TC,
Congrats! Make sure to post pics of the finished scabbard - that's some beautifully grained wood! Regards, Kai |
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7th June 2007, 10:37 PM
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#16 |
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,254
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Hello Ganja,
I also like both hulu on the left, especially the upper one may also look good with your ensemble. But I agree that the lower right one is probably the nicest (and apparently quite old) example with interesting pendokok! Short of an authentic Bugis blade like Rick's Sepokal, you could also try to find a fitting Javanese blade since trade blades of good quality are pretty frequently found with keris from Sulawesi... Regards, Kai |
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8th June 2007, 03:12 AM
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#17 |
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Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
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Thanks Kay,
Hopefully in a couple weeks, I will complete this sheath with the right keris. I've got one, and I returned it to the seller, because of no good appearance in the sekar kacang and greneng on the tail. Wavy (bugis?) keris with quite good pamor. But no good garap of work of art... Anyway, thanks your kind attention. Ganjawulung |
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8th June 2007, 11:00 AM
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#18 |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 401
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matching bugis blade
Pak Ganjawulung,
Bugis kerises are meant to be used as weapon, so they are normally not beautiful (artistically), but believe you me, the appealing point of Bugis blades is the macho image. I suggest that you find a solid and robust bugis sepokal to be dressed in your sarung & hulu. |
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11th June 2007, 04:44 AM
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#19 | |
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Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
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Quote:
This Bugis blade was sent to me from East Java last Saturday. The "pasikutan" (appearance, sorry for using Javanese term on this Bugis), is quite robust. Good iron, but too much corrosion on the core side. The pesi was wax-sealed in a Javanese/Solonese hilt. (Pls see the pictures). Do I need to send it back? Please, your advise, Penangsang... Ganjawulung |
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11th June 2007, 05:33 AM
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#20 |
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
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Made in the style of Bugis blades... but might not be...
Just my 2 cents opinion.
Last edited by Alam Shah; 11th June 2007 at 06:29 AM. |
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11th June 2007, 06:09 AM
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#21 |
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 401
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Pak Ganja,
Got the nick from my late grandfather who used to liken my temperement to that of Arya Penangsang .Regarding the sepokal, like Alam Shah had said, I am not too sure whether that is a true blue Bugis or a keris from other regions, looks like a sepokal though. I saw Raja Gunadala at the base of your keris (looks like a human figure?), I suggest that you keep it. Very nice old blade, and I would like to see it the bugis hulu and sarung before commenting any further. |
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11th June 2007, 08:20 AM
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#22 | |
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,254
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Quote:
BTW, I don't like the Jawa-style etching&staining on a Sulawesi-style blade (nor Sumatran, Malayan, Bali, etc. for that matter ): The heavy warangan can be easily toned down by soaking in coco nut water but I'd also suggest some gentle polishing to get a smoother surface (assuming this is a recent piece and there is enough substance to the blade to work with). While old Bugis-influenced blades often have topographic relief from repeated cleaning/etching, they still tend to have a smooth surface rather than the "porous" finish in keris Jawa.Much more important would be a decent fit to your scabbard though - any pics? (Kampung.net is still down, I guess? Searching this forum and Alam Shah's website will turn up quite a few pics though to get a better feeling how Bugis blades are supposed to fit.) Regards, Kai |
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11th June 2007, 06:24 PM
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#23 |
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Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
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Thanks Shahrial, Penangsang, Kai,
Your advice is very useful to determine my next choice. The common mistakes of people like me is: treating other kerises as if Javanese kerises. I'll keep in mind your advice... Ganjawulung |
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11th June 2007, 09:23 PM
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#24 | |
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,254
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Hello Ganjawulung,
Quote:
We have to keep in mind that there a quite a few local keris traditions which may differ pretty much in certain respects while others may be shared. OTOH, there has also been extensive cross-pollination (the Jawa-Palembang connection comes to mind as well as the spread of Bugis-influenced styles). I like this diversity! However, I always wondered wether different blade types may have been treated differently in some of the more diverse locations - for example in the Palembang sultanate. Any historic sources/hints that I missed? Regards, Kai |
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12th June 2007, 02:33 AM
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#25 | |
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Member
Join Date: May 2007
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Quote:
I like the diversity of this keris world too... Sometimes, I look back too far.. It was part of our history. The cross-pollination (I quote your word) at least had happened back in the 13th century. And Sang Adityawarman (Tuanku Janaka, Abhiseka Mantrolot) the founder of Pagarruyung (Minangkabau) kingdom (1339) was a Malay-blood who had been grown up in Majapahit... Read the interesting books from Prof Dr Slamet Muljana (The Fall of Hindu-Javanese Kingdoms and The Rise of Islamic States in Nusantara -- Runtuhnya Kerajaan Hindu-Jawa dan Timbulnya Negara-negara Islam di Nusantara, 1968 reprinted 2005). Or "Sriwijaya" from the same author. "Pamalayu Expedition" which was sent by Singasari kingdom (1275), they went back to Java -- bringing two Malay ladies (in Indonesian version, we called the two sisters as Dara Jingga and Dara Petak). Dara Petak was married to Raden Wijaya -- the then founder of the Majapahit kingdom (1294). Their son was king Jayanegara. While Dara Jingga was married to a Singasari hero in Sumatera, (the local name: Adwayawarman). The son was Adityawarman.. (See some versions of WF Stutterheim, Prof CC Berg and Prof VG Kern). Or the diversity of Bugis. After the fall of Gowa 1669 (in the hand of Vereenig-de Oost-Indische Compagnie, VOC), the Bugis warriors were spread. And the East Javanese leader, Trunajaya was established his power in Madura. Trunajaya organised the rebellion against Mataram's ruller of Amangkurat I -- the successor of Sultan Agung. Trunajaya organized the eastern power of Nusantara, including the warriors from Bugis. All the ports in Java were occupied, and Mataram was invaded and Plered Palace of Mataram was occupied too (according to the Australian historian, MC Ricklefs) in the end of May or end of June 1677... But, I look back to far, Kai... Ganjawulung |
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13th June 2007, 05:31 AM
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#26 |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Pak Ganjawulung,
Other than keris, history is another subject of my interest, and on Nusantara context, they are often corelated. Pangeran Adityawarman then ruled Palembang after handing over Pagaruyung to his mother, Dara Jingga (matriach system?) then became the ruler (governor?) of Palembang who paid tribute to Majapahit. His grandson, Parameswara , eventually opened Melaka after falling out of favor with Majapahit kingdom. That is why most Palembang & southern Malay Peninsula kerises are very much influenced by the Javanese. |
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13th June 2007, 09:01 PM
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#27 |
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Member
Join Date: May 2007
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Yes Penangsang,
Matriarchy. This was also, because of the royal ruler came from woman-royal blood. Dara Jingga and also Dara Petak, were the daughters of Melayu (Dharmasraya) king Tribuwanaraja Mauliwarmadewa. (Analysis from Prof Dr Slamet Muljana -- based on interpretation of old texts: "Kidung Panji Wijayakrama" and "Pararaton" -- see Muljana's book, The Fall of Javanese-Hindu kingdom and the Rise of Islamic States in Nusantara, 1965 reprinted 2005). After the vanishing of Sriwijaya kingdom (San fo t'si, according to old Chinese version), in Sumatera there were two kingdoms: Dharmasraya (located in the then Jambi now) and Palembang. And in 1339, Adityawarman founded a new kingdom in Pagarruyung, after serving in Majapahit kingdom. At that time, Prof Muljana wrote, Adityawarman was 45 years old. About the same age with Jayanegara or Kala Gemet, the Majapahit king and also the son of Raden Wijaya - Dara Petak. That was history... Ganjawulung |
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14th June 2007, 05:26 AM
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#28 |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Pak Ganja,
Were Dara Petak and Tribuana Tunggadewi (not sure of the spelling) the same person? I used to watch vcd's version of Tutur Tinular whereby it was said that Jaya Negara's mother was Tribuana Tunggadewi (who eventually became Ratu Majapahit after the death of his son Jaya Negara). BTW, have you tried to dress your sepokal blade with the matching hulu & sarung? Pics please.... |
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14th June 2007, 01:10 PM
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#29 | |
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Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
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Quote:
Dara Petak was not the same person with Tribuana Tunggadewi. In Majapahit, based on interpretation of "Pararaton" text, Dara Petak was named as Indreswari. Beside Indreswari (Dara Petak), Raden Wijaya had two other wives from king Kertanegara's daughters (of Singasari). They were Gayatri and Tribuana or Tribuwanatunggadewi... Indreswari was able to "compete" with the two other Kertanegara's princesses, and became the first lady of Majapahit at that time. But the internal conflict between royal family was still existing, just because the next throne (Jayanegara) was half "overseas blood". Raden Wijaya or Kertarajasa Jayawardhana reigned 1294-1309. The "half melayu blood" Jayanegara reigned for 19 years from 1309-1328. But then, the throne went to Tribuwanatunggadewi (Jayawisnuwardhani) after 1328... Rajasanegara or more popular as King Hayamwuruk, was the golden age of Majapahit Kingdom, reigned after Tribuwanatunggadewi (not mentioned the year) but until 1389... That was history, according to Prof Dr Slamet Muljana -- based on the old texts of Kidung Wijayakrama, Pararaton and Negarakertagama. And also from some source (prasasti) and Chinese chronicle... My sepokal? No, I am going to return it to my friend in East Java. He told me, that he got another Bugis blade, but I don't see it yet... Ganjawulung |
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15th June 2007, 07:21 AM
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#30 | ||
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 79
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I Beg To Differ ....
Quote:
According to me, Raden Wijaya/Kertarajasa was married to FOUR daughters of Kertanegara, namely, Tribhuwana, Jayendradewi, Prajnyaparamita/Rajendradewi and Gayatri/Rajapatni. Tribhuwana WAS NOT Tribhuwanatunggadewi. Tribhuwanatunggadewi was the daughter of Gayatri and full-sister to Dyah Wiyah Rajadewi. Quote:
To quote a friend of mine, Supomo Surjohudojo: '... in any tradition it is not the facts, the 'cold' facts, which are the truth, but rather how people see the facts, how people interpret them in accordance with their traditional way of life, and finally how people absorb them into their warm blood so that they become a part of their lives; that is indeed the truth'. Cheers. |
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