Unusual African knife

colin henshaw · 28th May 2016, 03:48 PM

This knife is a recent find. The blade is well forged with shallow fluting (neads a little cleaning).

The books I have with examples of this type, describe them variously as :-
Fan, Gaboon, war knife
Baule, execution knife
Liberia, Dan, Ngere, Kru, Grebo

Can anyone help with a definitive attribution ? Any photographs, comparable examples etc would be helpful...

Thanks in advance.

LJ · 28th May 2016, 06:59 PM

Fischer & Zirngibl, Afrikanische Waffen, page 21, illustrate one that is very similar to this, both in the shape of the hilt and the blade. They have it down as Baule and a "cult knife with wood handle" .

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 28th May 2016, 07:17 PM

SEE http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6508

Ken Maddock · 28th May 2016, 10:24 PM

Hi
I was underbider on this knife at the Bray auction
Are you another Irish collector?
Nice knife, I had to bow out on the bidding as I was more interested in the percussion pistol that followed , which I got.
Regards
Ken

colin henshaw · 29th May 2016, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Maddock

Hi
I was underbider on this knife at the Bray auction
Are you another Irish collector?
Nice knife, I had to bow out on the bidding as I was more interested in the percussion pistol that followed , which I got.
Regards
Ken

Hi Ken
No, not in Ireland, I am based in London. Glad you stopped bidding

Regarding the knife, the Fischer & Zirngible book says Baule, the Zirngible & Kubetz "panga na visu" book says Liberia, Dan tribe etc and the Oldman 1906 catalogue illustrates an example saying Fan tribe, Gabon. So perhaps its a case of take your pick ??

LJ · 29th May 2016, 06:20 PM

I've just looked at the Pitt Rivers online catalogue, searching for Baule knife and for Gabon knife. Nothing under Baule, but they have one - which looks very similar to the one sold by Oldman (is it the same one?) catalogued as being from Gabon but with a query.

There seems to be nothing similar in the BM

VANDOO · 29th May 2016, 11:28 PM

IF THE PITTS RIVERS KNIFE HAS THE SCABBARD AND NOTES IT IS LIKELY THE ONE FROM THE OLDMAN'S CATALOG. ONE NEVER KNOWS AS SOMEONE MAY HAVE DECIDED TO THROW AWAY THE SCABBARD BECAUSE OF WHAT IT WAS MADE OF THUS THROWING AWAY SOME OF ITS HISTORY FOR ILLOGICAL PERSONNEL REASONS. THE EXAMPLE IN THIS POST ALSO LOOKS LIKE THE ONE IN THE CATALOG. SCABBARDS SOMETIMES GETS LOST WHEN THE ESTATE IS SOLD AS THE KNIFE IS NOT IN IT AND THE COLLECTOR NO LONGER PRESENT TO PUT THINGS RIGHT, OR THE BUGS GET IT.

A NICE AND INTERESTING KNIFE WHATEVER ITS STORY MAY BE.

LJ · 30th May 2016, 11:43 AM

Just had another thought. William Oldman's ledgers of purchases and sales are in the British Museum, so they should be available at their study centre. At least that might lead you to who Oldman got his knife from, and thus why he thought it was from Gabon.

colin henshaw · 31st May 2016, 05:07 PM

Thanks for the comments so far. Looking through the "panga na visu" book again, they have a photo of a native holding one of these knives. His dress with those leather ? hangings looks more West African than Fan...

Martin Lubojacky · 31st May 2016, 10:56 PM

There is late 19th century group photo of "King Fla and his bodyguard" in the book "African Arms and Armour" by Christipher Spring. One of the men holds this short sword - which is described as a "sword commonly used by Kru people of Liberia".

LJ · 1st June 2016, 12:04 PM

So ... going back to the B.M. online database and searching for "sword Liberia" it turns out they do have a similar one to this. But it has an old label giving the provenance as Calabar (which is in modern-day Nigeria). Presumably, it was later catalogued as being from Liberia because of the photograph of King Fla and his bodyguard.

I wonder if these were widely traded in West Africa, ending up in Liberia, Nigeria, Gabon, Ivory Coast. If that is so, then where were they made? Does the shape of the hilt indicate a possible place of origin ?

tribalarms · 1st June 2016, 08:53 PM

It is indeed a sword from the Kru people in Liberia.

colin henshaw · 2nd June 2016, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LJ

So ... going back to the B.M. online database and searching for "sword Liberia" it turns out they do have a similar one to this. But it has an old label giving the provenance as Calabar (which is in modern-day Nigeria). Presumably, it was later catalogued as being from Liberia because of the photograph of King Fla and his bodyguard.

I wonder if these were widely traded in West Africa, ending up in Liberia, Nigeria, Gabon, Ivory Coast. If that is so, then where were they made? Does the shape of the hilt indicate a possible place of origin ?

From the evidence available, my feeling is LJ is on the right track regarding these knives. Was in town yesterday and dropped by the B.M. Here are some images of the example they have on display.

Its a pity my knife doesn't have its sheath, they are good, sculptural objects in their own right.

28th May 2016, 03:48 PM	#1
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Unusual African knife This knife is a recent find. The blade is well forged with shallow fluting (neads a little cleaning). The books I have with examples of this type, describe them variously as :- Fan, Gaboon, war knife Baule, execution knife Liberia, Dan, Ngere, Kru, Grebo Can anyone help with a definitive attribution ? Any photographs, comparable examples etc would be helpful... Thanks in advance. Attached Images

28th May 2016, 07:17 PM	#3
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	BAULE.... SEE http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6508 Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 28th May 2016 at 08:28 PM.

31st May 2016, 05:07 PM	#9
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Thanks for the comments so far. Looking through the "panga na visu" book again, they have a photo of a native holding one of these knives. His dress with those leather ? hangings looks more West African than Fan... Attached Images

28th May 2016, 06:59 PM	#2
LJ Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 93	Fischer & Zirngibl, Afrikanische Waffen, page 21, illustrate one that is very similar to this, both in the shape of the hilt and the blade. They have it down as Baule and a "cult knife with wood handle" .

28th May 2016, 10:24 PM	#4
Ken Maddock Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Ireland Posts: 104	Hi I was underbider on this knife at the Bray auction Are you another Irish collector? Nice knife, I had to bow out on the bidding as I was more interested in the percussion pistol that followed , which I got. Regards Ken

29th May 2016, 06:20 PM	#6
LJ Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 93	I've just looked at the Pitt Rivers online catalogue, searching for Baule knife and for Gabon knife. Nothing under Baule, but they have one - which looks very similar to the one sold by Oldman (is it the same one?) catalogued as being from Gabon but with a query. There seems to be nothing similar in the BM

29th May 2016, 11:28 PM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IF THE PITTS RIVERS KNIFE HAS THE SCABBARD AND NOTES IT IS LIKELY THE ONE FROM THE OLDMAN'S CATALOG. ONE NEVER KNOWS AS SOMEONE MAY HAVE DECIDED TO THROW AWAY THE SCABBARD BECAUSE OF WHAT IT WAS MADE OF THUS THROWING AWAY SOME OF ITS HISTORY FOR ILLOGICAL PERSONNEL REASONS. THE EXAMPLE IN THIS POST ALSO LOOKS LIKE THE ONE IN THE CATALOG. SCABBARDS SOMETIMES GETS LOST WHEN THE ESTATE IS SOLD AS THE KNIFE IS NOT IN IT AND THE COLLECTOR NO LONGER PRESENT TO PUT THINGS RIGHT, OR THE BUGS GET IT. A NICE AND INTERESTING KNIFE WHATEVER ITS STORY MAY BE.

30th May 2016, 11:43 AM	#8
LJ Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 93	Just had another thought. William Oldman's ledgers of purchases and sales are in the British Museum, so they should be available at their study centre. At least that might lead you to who Oldman got his knife from, and thus why he thought it was from Gabon.

31st May 2016, 10:56 PM	#10
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 841	There is late 19th century group photo of "King Fla and his bodyguard" in the book "African Arms and Armour" by Christipher Spring. One of the men holds this short sword - which is described as a "sword commonly used by Kru people of Liberia".

1st June 2016, 12:04 PM	#11
LJ Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 93	So ... going back to the B.M. online database and searching for "sword Liberia" it turns out they do have a similar one to this. But it has an old label giving the provenance as Calabar (which is in modern-day Nigeria). Presumably, it was later catalogued as being from Liberia because of the photograph of King Fla and his bodyguard. I wonder if these were widely traded in West Africa, ending up in Liberia, Nigeria, Gabon, Ivory Coast. If that is so, then where were they made? Does the shape of the hilt indicate a possible place of origin ?

1st June 2016, 08:53 PM	#12
tribalarms Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 26	It is indeed a sword from the Kru people in Liberia.