Maguindanao Kris with Fine Okir Hilt and Ivory Pommel

F. de Luzon · 29th March 2018, 04:46 PM

Hello all! Here's a Maguindano kris with fine okir on the hilt, and an ivory pommel. As you can see, the pommel looks very old. I would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.

Fernando

kronckew · 29th March 2018, 04:50 PM

Cool, High class Datu warrior's weapon, love the etch showing the lamination/inserted hard edge.

F. de Luzon · 29th March 2018, 04:53 PM

Hi Kronckew,

I'll post some close-ups of the blade for you tomorrow. Thanks for your insights.

Fernando

Battara · 29th March 2018, 05:23 PM

What a nice piece!

Actually I would say that the blade is Maguindanao, while the hilt is Maranao or made by a Maranao craftsman (based on the Maranao okir). This is not unheard of since these tribal areas were next to each other.

Also it looks like the surface of the orange bands of the hilt are made of suassa.

Is there a scabbard?

F. de Luzon · 29th March 2018, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

What a nice piece!

Actually I would say that the blade is Maguindanao, while the hilt is Maranao or made by a Maranao craftsman (based on the Maranao okir). This is not unheard of since these tribal areas were next to each other.

Also it looks like the surface of the orange bands of the hilt are made of suassa.

Is there a scabbard?

Hi Battara,

I was wondering if that hilt was Maranao. It comes with a Sulu style scabbard. So, it's a Maguindanao blade with a Maranao hilt and Sulu scabbard. Is it a cross over?

Regarding the hilt, I cleaned it and it turned white, almost like silver, then went back to this color after a few months. Is that a characteristic of swassa?

Thank you!

Fernando

Battara · 29th March 2018, 08:41 PM

Oh I see...........well it might not be suassa then, but a silver/copper mix to look like suassa. It will take testing by a jeweler to be sure which one.

Please post the scabbard so I can better determine if Sulu or what.

Crossovers are not unheard of........

F. de Luzon · 30th March 2018, 12:17 PM

Here are some close ups of the blade.

F. de Luzon · 30th March 2018, 12:29 PM

Hi Battara,

Below are pictures of the scabbard. The first one is the one it came with. I think it's a Sulu type. The mouth of the scabbard is slightly wider than the width of the gangya.

The second one is the scabbard of another kris that actually fits perfectly. It fits this blade much better than the one it came with. Since it's also a Sulu type, I kind of like it together. What do you think?

I hope to have the metal on the hilt tested soon and I'll let you know as soon as I have an update on that.

Thank you.

Fernando

CharlesS · 31st March 2018, 12:50 AM

Lovely kriss!

The holes along the spine of the pommel and they nearly straight line of dark patina there make we wonder if there was a silver or suassa band across the top.

Battara, your thoughts?

Battara · 31st March 2018, 01:48 AM

Regarding the patina around the top and back of the pommel, I was looking at that and have hesitated to comment. I think Charles that it is likely that there was a silver (I doubt true suassa) strap around the pommel. Thanks for pointing out the holes (I had to look a littler harder to see what you were talking about).

Regarding the scabbards: both were made later than the kris itself. The first one was made perhaps in the 1990s(?) and is not Sulu but looks more Maguindanao. The second scabbard is perhaps from the 1960s-1980s(?) and Sulu (based on the style of the scabbard as a whole). However the cloth mansala might be Maguindanao (need to see more of it).

However, glad to see some lamination in the blade. This for me definitely places the kris in the late 19th - early 20th century.

F. de Luzon · 31st March 2018, 04:10 AM

I was wondering about those holes and the dark patina, CharlesS. Thanks for pointing it out.

Salamat sa insights, Battara. I'm happy to know it came with a Maguindanao scabbard.

I've noticed that nicer scabbards (hardwood with okir/ukkil on brass rings) are usually later additions. They are heavier and more decorative compared to the evidently older scabbards that some of my krisses came with. Usually the older ones are no frills and practical. I think I'll start another thread on this.

29th March 2018, 04:46 PM	#1
F. de Luzon Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 184	Maguindanao Kris with Fine Okir Hilt and Ivory Pommel Hello all! Here's a Maguindano kris with fine okir on the hilt, and an ivory pommel. As you can see, the pommel looks very old. I would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks. Fernando Attached Images Last edited by F. de Luzon; 30th March 2018 at 12:16 PM.

30th March 2018, 12:17 PM	#7
F. de Luzon Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 184	Here are some close ups of the blade. Attached Images

30th March 2018, 12:29 PM	#8
F. de Luzon Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 184	Hi Battara, Below are pictures of the scabbard. The first one is the one it came with. I think it's a Sulu type. The mouth of the scabbard is slightly wider than the width of the gangya. The second one is the scabbard of another kris that actually fits perfectly. It fits this blade much better than the one it came with. Since it's also a Sulu type, I kind of like it together. What do you think? I hope to have the metal on the hilt tested soon and I'll let you know as soon as I have an update on that. Thank you. Fernando Attached Images

31st March 2018, 12:50 AM	#9
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Lovely kriss! The holes along the spine of the pommel and they nearly straight line of dark patina there make we wonder if there was a silver or suassa band across the top. Battara, your thoughts? Last edited by CharlesS; 31st March 2018 at 03:05 PM.

29th March 2018, 04:50 PM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	Cool, High class Datu warrior's weapon, love the etch showing the lamination/inserted hard edge.

29th March 2018, 04:53 PM	#3
F. de Luzon Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 184	Hi Kronckew, I'll post some close-ups of the blade for you tomorrow. Thanks for your insights. Fernando

29th March 2018, 05:23 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	What a nice piece! Actually I would say that the blade is Maguindanao, while the hilt is Maranao or made by a Maranao craftsman (based on the Maranao okir). This is not unheard of since these tribal areas were next to each other. Also it looks like the surface of the orange bands of the hilt are made of suassa. Is there a scabbard?

29th March 2018, 08:41 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Oh I see...........well it might not be suassa then, but a silver/copper mix to look like suassa. It will take testing by a jeweler to be sure which one. Please post the scabbard so I can better determine if Sulu or what. Crossovers are not unheard of........

31st March 2018, 01:48 AM	#10
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Regarding the patina around the top and back of the pommel, I was looking at that and have hesitated to comment. I think Charles that it is likely that there was a silver (I doubt true suassa) strap around the pommel. Thanks for pointing out the holes (I had to look a littler harder to see what you were talking about). Regarding the scabbards: both were made later than the kris itself. The first one was made perhaps in the 1990s(?) and is not Sulu but looks more Maguindanao. The second scabbard is perhaps from the 1960s-1980s(?) and Sulu (based on the style of the scabbard as a whole). However the cloth mansala might be Maguindanao (need to see more of it). However, glad to see some lamination in the blade. This for me definitely places the kris in the late 19th - early 20th century.

31st March 2018, 04:10 AM	#11
F. de Luzon Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 184	I was wondering about those holes and the dark patina, CharlesS. Thanks for pointing it out. Salamat sa insights, Battara. I'm happy to know it came with a Maguindanao scabbard. I've noticed that nicer scabbards (hardwood with okir/ukkil on brass rings) are usually later additions. They are heavier and more decorative compared to the evidently older scabbards that some of my krisses came with. Usually the older ones are no frills and practical. I think I'll start another thread on this.