Club ID

Tim Simmons · 18th October 2014, 06:16 PM

Many years ago I had an example of this club form only in a hard blond wood. I believed it to be from somewhere south pacific. I let it go in a swap. I now have this example. I have seen then listed as Solomon Island, in fact on a well know auction site and from a large European country, there is one said to be from Rennell Island at quite a cost. What makes me ask a question about this club is the fact it came with the leather loop which is too small for a lanyard. The leather is old and broke while I set about taking the pictures. Leather is not an oceanic material. I would associate leather material with Africa? It is possible that an old leather trade item was simply cut up and used to make a hanging loop where it was made or even by the previous or original collector. The two tone wood could just as much be Solomon Island as African? There is lime inlay which is a Solomon island thing. Any ideas?

kronckew · 18th October 2014, 06:52 PM

wood looks african, circular motif is fairly universal tho.

colin henshaw · 26th October 2014, 10:26 AM

Nice club. I've seen this type once or twice before, sometimes described as Hawaii or elsewhere Oceanic. My own feeling is that a South American source should be considered (Brazil/Guyana). That reddish wood and the concave element are indicators...

Tim Simmons · 26th October 2014, 12:51 PM

Thank you Colin. Now you mention South America, I think you are correct. In this Aputu the article.

http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/vi...t=anthrotheses

Mention is made of belaying pin form clubs. Lime? like material is found as inlay on some South American clubs.

kronckew · 21st November 2014, 09:39 PM

just bought this one thru ebay. 17 3/4 in. long. billed as "Superb Vintage African Tribal Art Knobkerrie Throwing Club?".

more round circles with dotted centers.

the club pdf referenced above has a cryptic reference to belaying pin shaped clubs as applied to two in a photo that look completely unlike tim's and now mine.

jaxonrice · 31st March 2015, 03:37 PM

These staffs are definitely Southern or South East African. I've seen a few over the years.

My gut tells me I saw one of these in Situ amongst the Barotse (Lozi) tribe in the early nineties, but I was not taking photographs at the time and can not be sure.

I would think that these staffs are probably ceremonial in nature rather than throwing clubs due to the lack of damage or wear from throwing use that I've seen on any of them.

I've attached two pictures of similar staffs to this post. The first is from the Royal Museum for Central Africa in Belgium, where it's attributed to the Shona:
http://www.africamuseum.be/collectio...objectid=55811

The second one was being sold last year by Wallis & Wallis auction house in the UK, and was attributed as a Southern African knobkerrie.

Tim Simmons · 31st March 2015, 08:25 PM

Great sense at last.

colin henshaw · 2nd April 2015, 06:48 PM

Excellent - another mystery solved !

Sajen · 20th April 2015, 06:16 PM

Today I've visited a friend who have a gallery with mostly Papua New Guinea stuff and he had exactly such a club lying around. I asked him about the origin and his answer was Renell Island.

Regards,
Detlef

kronckew · 20th April 2015, 07:15 PM

interesting. either african or rennel islands. i suspect rennel may be closer to the truth.

Sajen · 20th April 2015, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

interesting. either african or rennel islands. i suspect rennel may be closer to the truth.

My friend was very sure about his statement!

Tim Simmons · 20th April 2015, 08:29 PM

Another one that will have to flare up now and again like toothache.

kronckew · 20th April 2015, 10:10 PM

argh! i've got a real toothache at the moment.

jaxonrice · 21st April 2015, 12:33 AM

I now suspect that this is a form that genuinely appears on two continents in slightly different guises, as I have seen quite a few of similar shape and form in Southern Africa.

Whilst not of exactly the same form, here is another similar example. The attached picture in this post is of a club that appeared at an auction house in Cape Town in 2013, attributed as a 19th century Zulu knobkerrie.

The example from my previous post which sits at the Royal Museum for Central Africa, was purchased from the National Gallery of Zimbabwe. I highly doubt it originated in the Rennel Islands.

The circumpunct, or circle with a point at its centre, is also not a help with identification as it appears in so many diverse tribal cultures.

Tim Simmons · 21st April 2015, 08:42 PM

My feelings are for an African origin. It would be nice e to be really sure though?

kronckew · 21st April 2015, 08:53 PM

maybe a dna test?

Tim Simmons · 23rd April 2015, 08:28 AM

A cell test can be done on the wood but does cost and may not pin point the exact timber.

kronckew · 23rd April 2015, 10:11 AM

we can probably set up a fund on the web and ask for donations. if they can get funding for studying the mating habits of walrus in the antarctic and penguins in the arctic, we'd be a shoo-in

p.s - there are no walrus in the antarctic, nor penguins in the arctic.

fireiceviper · 28th July 2015, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

My friend was very sure about his statement!

i saw a more stylized version of this one in a auction once, it was stylized more like a squid and also attributed to the Solomon islands.

18th October 2014, 06:16 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Club ID Many years ago I had an example of this club form only in a hard blond wood. I believed it to be from somewhere south pacific. I let it go in a swap. I now have this example. I have seen then listed as Solomon Island, in fact on a well know auction site and from a large European country, there is one said to be from Rennell Island at quite a cost. What makes me ask a question about this club is the fact it came with the leather loop which is too small for a lanyard. The leather is old and broke while I set about taking the pictures. Leather is not an oceanic material. I would associate leather material with Africa? It is possible that an old leather trade item was simply cut up and used to make a hanging loop where it was made or even by the previous or original collector. The two tone wood could just as much be Solomon Island as African? There is lime inlay which is a Solomon island thing. Any ideas? Attached Images

21st November 2014, 09:39 PM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	just bought this one thru ebay. 17 3/4 in. long. billed as "Superb Vintage African Tribal Art Knobkerrie Throwing Club?". more round circles with dotted centers. the club pdf referenced above has a cryptic reference to belaying pin shaped clubs as applied to two in a photo that look completely unlike tim's and now mine. Attached Images

31st March 2015, 03:37 PM	#6
jaxonrice Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Johannesburg, South Africa Posts: 12	These staffs are definitely Southern or South East African. I've seen a few over the years. My gut tells me I saw one of these in Situ amongst the Barotse (Lozi) tribe in the early nineties, but I was not taking photographs at the time and can not be sure. I would think that these staffs are probably ceremonial in nature rather than throwing clubs due to the lack of damage or wear from throwing use that I've seen on any of them. I've attached two pictures of similar staffs to this post. The first is from the Royal Museum for Central Africa in Belgium, where it's attributed to the Shona: http://www.africamuseum.be/collectio...objectid=55811 The second one was being sold last year by Wallis & Wallis auction house in the UK, and was attributed as a Southern African knobkerrie. Attached Images

21st April 2015, 12:33 AM	#14
jaxonrice Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Johannesburg, South Africa Posts: 12	I now suspect that this is a form that genuinely appears on two continents in slightly different guises, as I have seen quite a few of similar shape and form in Southern Africa. Whilst not of exactly the same form, here is another similar example. The attached picture in this post is of a club that appeared at an auction house in Cape Town in 2013, attributed as a 19th century Zulu knobkerrie. The example from my previous post which sits at the Royal Museum for Central Africa, was purchased from the National Gallery of Zimbabwe. I highly doubt it originated in the Rennel Islands. The circumpunct, or circle with a point at its centre, is also not a help with identification as it appears in so many diverse tribal cultures. Attached Images Last edited by jaxonrice; 21st April 2015 at 09:13 AM. Reason: Photo did not upload properly

18th October 2014, 06:52 PM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	wood looks african, circular motif is fairly universal tho.

26th October 2014, 10:26 AM	#3
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Nice club. I've seen this type once or twice before, sometimes described as Hawaii or elsewhere Oceanic. My own feeling is that a South American source should be considered (Brazil/Guyana). That reddish wood and the concave element are indicators...

26th October 2014, 12:51 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Thank you Colin. Now you mention South America, I think you are correct. In this Aputu the article. http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/vi...t=anthrotheses Mention is made of belaying pin form clubs. Lime? like material is found as inlay on some South American clubs.

31st March 2015, 08:25 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Great sense at last.

2nd April 2015, 06:48 PM	#8
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Excellent - another mystery solved !

20th April 2015, 06:16 PM	#9
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Today I've visited a friend who have a gallery with mostly Papua New Guinea stuff and he had exactly such a club lying around. I asked him about the origin and his answer was Renell Island. Regards, Detlef

20th April 2015, 07:15 PM	#10
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	interesting. either african or rennel islands. i suspect rennel may be closer to the truth.

20th April 2015, 08:29 PM	#12
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Another one that will have to flare up now and again like toothache.

20th April 2015, 10:10 PM	#13
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	argh! i've got a real toothache at the moment.

21st April 2015, 08:42 PM	#15
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	My feelings are for an African origin. It would be nice e to be really sure though?

21st April 2015, 08:53 PM	#16
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	maybe a dna test?

23rd April 2015, 08:28 AM	#17
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	A cell test can be done on the wood but does cost and may not pin point the exact timber.

23rd April 2015, 10:11 AM	#18
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	we can probably set up a fund on the web and ask for donations. if they can get funding for studying the mating habits of walrus in the antarctic and penguins in the arctic, we'd be a shoo-in p.s - there are no walrus in the antarctic, nor penguins in the arctic.